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New poll finds strong majority opposes gender-affirming care bans for trans minors
(www.lgbtqnation.com)
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this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024
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I don't understand what is so reprehensible about trans kids being able to socially transition to live as their chosen gender? Social transition is clothing and behaviour, not surgical or medical. If the kid doesn't like it, they tried it, found out for themselves, and can stop whenever they want.
And what is so evil about trans kids being able to choose to delay puberty till 18, so they can as legal adults, then decide if they want to safely medically and surgically transition, or not and go through the puberty of their birth gender?
Going through puberty in the wrong body causes unbelievable distress to many trans kids, leading to eating disorders, self harm, suicide, and a whole load of other awful mental and physical problems.
Why is safely alleviating harm to these children by allowing them to socially transition and delay puberty, a bad thing?
No trans child is getting surgery. Puberty blockers are safe and entierly reversible.
Gender affirming care has nothing to do with your disgusting paedophillic fantasies about children, and that you even correlate the two IS reprehensible and very telling of the type of person you are.
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Intersex children (born with undefined anatomy) get operated on at doctors discretion from their birth onwards, but this isn't a conversation about that, however immoral and harrowing it is.
They JUST told you, no one is advocating for surgeries in children. What they are advocating for is what has been done for ages - puberty blockers and therapy until they are of the age to make the decision for themselves.
You keep referring to “surgery” and now “chemical therapy” (I assume you mean hormones), but that’s not at all what is supposed to happen with children, it’s a straw man made up by by the right wing.
You say “it’s our job to give them time to grow into a decision or an identity before making a lasting choice” and that’s EXACTLY what's been happening and is still under assault by these anti-trans laws that keep getting passed in the confederate states.
They don’t want them to exist so they are trying to legislate them away.
Boy wants to be a princess, obviously we should let him have sex.
You're making a slippery slope argument
Puberty blockers should be allowed, not making a decision is still a decision
No, in essence gender and sexuality are not the same and you seem to be saying they are. If after discussing with a doctor and parents or legal guardian if the best course of action is to prescribe puberty blockers so they can make an informed decision about hormones when 18 I see nothing wrong with that or equivalent to sexualizing children.
Are you stupid or a paedophile?
Gender presentation isn't sexual.
Delaying puberty and living as the opposite gender for a few years during childhood, isn't permanent and can be fully reversed if the child changes their mind.
People like you, who keep insisting on correlating prepubescent children's gender presentation with sexual behaviour, are the permantly damaging danger to these children.
If you ever feel like you're going to harm a child because of these abhorrent sexual thoughts you're having, go to a police station or a hospital and beg them to be locked up and medicated.
Or do the honourable thing and save everyone the harm of having to interact with a paedophile. Nobody of value wants people who sexualise and hurt children in their society.
I have no idea what your point might be, but I'm fairly sure it's as stupid as everything else you wrote.
You didn't communicate any of that, and your comment shows a severe lack of understanding of what gender affirming care for minors actually consists of.
And if the therapy aligns with their physical gender? No treatment for a girl who goes through puberty too young? Nothing for a girl of 17 who is worried because she hadn't started "developing" or gotten her period? Nothing for a boy who isn't going through male puberty, or starts it at 5? Intersex kids who are mis-assigned at birth and panic as adolescents?
Yes the therapies are not without risk, but doing nothing is also not without risk. The only reason doctors will prescribe puberty blockers is if the kids are suffering, otherwise the "care" that is getting outlawed is counseling. I have a trans kid and the doctor prescribed counseling but they can't get it because the clinics aren't allowed to "treat" the transgendered now.
If a kid has a heart condition and they have to have a risky surgery, the doctors ask the parents. Because the child is not old enough to understand the implications of these things.
I see gender dysphoria as a similar thing. The suicide rate is very high for these individuals so some form of treatment is essential if you care about your child. It's the same as if they had a heart issue with like a 40% risk of dying. It's life or death.
The transitioning process works best if it happens before puberty. When a child goes through puberty, the sexual hormones start pumping and that permanently changes many parts of the body. Literally the shape and size of bones will change.
If you catch gender dysphoria before puberty, the end result of the transition will be much more effective than doing it at 18 or 20. By that point there's no going back from puberty.
So essentially - the child isn't making a decision. The parents are making an informed medical decision based on a diagnosis by a medical professional.
I really don't see this as any different than any other medical issue. The difference is this is unusual and many people think emotionally.
That's what I can't fathom. This is such a big boost for children's mental health. It heavily reduces their depression and suicide risk. They're happier.
Maybe this is controversial, but if a parent isn't willing to do that for their kid, I believe it's neglect and endangerment. They aren't fit to be a parent, and the state should intervene. We don't let parents with batshit religious beliefs deny their children lifesaving treatment. We shouldn't let parents deny their children treatment that would vastly improve their mental health and reduce their suicide risk.
I would want more research before mandating it as if it were lifesaving operations. But yeah, I agree in a general sense.
I think a lot of people that disagree would change their minds if they had a child with gender dysphoria. A lot of conservatives believe the parents are manipulating the child or seeing things that aren't there.
But I've seen it before. I met a little boy maybe 8 or 9 years old in a very religious conservative household some years back. It was the neighbor of a family friend. Nobody manipulated him into saying stuff like "I'm a girl in a boy's body". Or trying to sneak makeup or dresses. They tried to pray it out of him. But it was persistent, year after year he would day these things.
I think the same thing with a lot of anti-gay people having a gay son or whatever. Once you meet someone like that it sort of becomes real and makes you realize "oh wow maybe I'm wrong"
I changed my mind after meeting that family and seeing the boy. I used to think differently on this.
It takes a strong and wise person to admit they were wrong and change their mind for the better. I applaud you for that. Given how prevalent calling things gay was when I was a teenager, I think a lot of people changed their minds for the better when they realized their friends and family were gay. And then some realized they were also gay, funny enough.
I agree that we need more time before we institute any sort of policy or mandating, but I do think we should eventually do that.
It's interesting, I think a lot of conservative beliefs come down to the idea that children cannot be autonomous people with their own beliefs. They don't believe that a child can have an independent thought, and that whatever they say is indoctrination from parents or school. It says a lot about their worldview.
If someone fully believes in the independence of children to form their own thoughts and beliefs and opinions, I don't see how they could support any sort of anti LGBT ban.
You’re getting downvoted because you’re repeating false rhetoric.
No, pretty much nobody thinks a child should be having a sexual relationship with whomever they want. However, teens do have those relationships, and most of us acknowledge it happens and are generally ok with it provided there aren’t clear signs of abuse.
Likewise, no one thinks a child should medically transition. However, many of us think teens should be able to medically transition. In fact, decisions about transitioning are often happening several years later than decisions about sex.
Your hypothetical example was to give people a mental image of 6 and 7 year olds when you know damn well the conversation is about 16 and 17 year olds. And if you genuinely weren’t aware, you are now, so it’s time to rethink your position.
If you want to talk about these decisions in the age group where they’re actually happening, then sure, let’s talk. But it’s not going to be conversational if you’re not willing to start from a position of intellectual honesty.
I'm getting downvoted because I made a strongly worded statement that makes a parallel that makes people uncomfortable. It's easy to push a button and feel like you've somehow confirmed your social values. It doesn't bother me. If they don't speak up they had nothing to contribute.
However we aren't okay with early teens having those relationships outside of controlled environments (age etc.). You can decide as long as it's within our parameters. And while this is happening - we still legally eviscerate teens that have sex with each other. I digress.
I'm all for it at 16 or 17. This is being done on/to 12-15 year old highschoolers. This is the target age range I was looking at as well. I selected an ambiguous age because it drove the point home. I know damn well what I wrote and why I wrote it. Everyone loves to assign additional meaning to someones actions- not dissimilar from forcing kids into a risky decision early on in their development.
I've been nothing but honest. I come from a family of educators and medical professionals. My opinions are founded based on my experiences, my friends experiences, and my families experiences. But I guess intellectual honesty isn't that. Please direct me which line I need to intellectualy fall into?
Where are you getting that 12 year olds are medically transitioning? Standard of care is 16+ and only recently has WPATH given the opinion that down to 14 may be appropriate in some cases.
Also, no one is “forcing” these kids into any sort of decision. These decisions are being made between the patient, parents, and doctor after thorough evaluation and discussion take place.
In almost all cases the point is to keep things reversible. The problem is puberty. Once the hormone cascades hit, it's far harder to transition. At the same time, fully transitioning is not something many children are equipped to cope with.
Luckily there is a 3rd option. Puberty can be delayed without permanent issues. This gives the patient and doctors time to figure out what to do long term. If they were confused, they stop the drugs, and puberty happens normally. If they truly want to transition, they are in a far better position to change than if they experienced puberty as the "wrong" gender.
By delaying the changes, it allows time for them to process what they want. It also lets them experience living as the other gender, in a reversible manner.
This is the first half that everyone wants to champion but reality is that drugs of any kind - treatments of any kind - have side effects and lasting effects.
Hitting pause as everyone so eloquently puts it does actually have effects outside of underdeveloped sexual organs. It's not a magic bullet.
I'm not against someone being who they want to be but do so after the age of consent when your development is slowing down. It's safer.
As far as what children are equipped to deal with: That age range is for discovering their identity. Hitting pause is a disservice to that cause. Yes the physical changes are a real thing - but those changes aren't all sexual either and are affected by the drugs we're shoving onto these kids.
If anything the current culture is forcing them to make a decision on "take these drugs now or you won't be perfect." Fuck that. Pushing a decision on them like that, regardless of our intent, is no better than denying who they are (or who they may become) outright.
I may not advocate for changing children when they are developing but once they have more time to be certain of who they want to become - I'm all for it.
Nobody thinks there's a magic bullet, but you seem to imply that continuing with the wrong puberty will not leave lasting effects. Delaying is the least bad of three imperfect options. You're complaining about "putting a decision on the child", while taking that decision away from them, the parents, and doctor.
Simply waiting "until they have more time to be certain" is not a neutral decision; it's deciding cis and worsening the consequences if they're not. They're consenting to a medical procedure - not to sex - so the age of consent [for sex] doesn't apply; informed consent medical ethics do.
Hope this helps!
We have been using puberty blockers for a long time. They were around when I was prepubescent. They're established medicine, and doctors deem whatever the side effects are to be worth helping the children's mental and physical health.
All medicine is like this. Very little medication has no side effects at all. Yet we give children medicine all the time. Because it does more good than harm.
Who decides if it does more good than harm? Medical professionals. Not laymen on the Internet.
You're totally right! Kids shouldn't be able to acquire whatever drugs they want independently of parents and doctors. Luckily that's not on discussion anywhere