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this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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Jews are an ethnic group, culture, and religion, but not a race. It's a common enough misconception spread via the media. Also any given Jew is not necessarily all three.
The lesson from World War II is that war can only delay the spread of an idea, but not destroy it. Ideas have to be fought with other ideas. Killing Nazis only bought us time to think of better ideas, spread them, and deradicalize people. Thanks to conservative propaganda networks and social media, we're on the verge of a fascist takeover. We are in an information race against fascists. The fascists are turning the US into a christofascist dictatorship, by controlling the narrative and driving the news cycle, not by killing anyone. We have to beat them in this race to stop them.
Israeli is not the same thing as Jewish.
Many Jewish people hate Israel.
Yes, I am Jewish, but not Israeli. I assumed most people referring to Israelis as a race are referring to Jews a race. It seems weird to confuse nationality with race in the 21st century.
I don't hate Israel, because hating Israel is more taxing to me than it is to Israel. I think Israel is an apartheid state that's committing genocide and war crimes in Gaza, Zionism is a fascist ideology, the current Israeli government is dominated by fascists, and that the concept that we need a Jewish ethnostate in order to be safe is ridiculous. Israel needs to change radically and it needs to change as soon as possible.
I’d be willing to bet you could find one or two Israelies (Israelites?) that hate Israel too.
Israeli is modern inhabitants, Israelites are the ones from the old testament
Got it. Thanks!
I realized when typing I wasn’t sure
"Race" has no biological definition. Star Wars fans can be a race if you want them to.
Typically when people are saying Jews are a race, they referring to the idea that Jews are not White, as in they cannot be White. Jews can be White, but they can also be Black, Native American or Hispanic. Jews are not in a racial category that excludes them from being part of these groups. That's what I was referring to when I wrote race.
That's not really the main point, I was agreeing with the person I responding to and adding some clarification. It seemed to have distracted from the issue at hand.
Killing people isn't how we stop the spread of fascism in the modern day. We need to spread information, for example, that fascism is a self-destructive ideology that will destroy hundreds of millions of lives and that the Republican Party is controlled by fascists. I think most people know that on lemmy, but there are plenty of people who will check into politics in the months leading up to the election and form their opinions then. A misconception I see on lemmy is that some people assume we can defeat fascism with guns alone. That isn't going to cut it. We have to reach more people with true information before fascists reach them with misinformation. Once a person forms an opinion they are unlikely to discard that opinion when presented with new information in the short term. That short term can easily last until the election, so these months leading up to the election are crucial. edit: capitalization
Race is a well documented biological fact actually. It's not subject to political interpretation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3737365/
By Alan Templeton.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Templeton
Do you think maybe you're misunderstanding him?
It think it's debatable about how you define Races, but it's also quite obvious that biological races exist. There are specific differences in the physical biology that separate the races, and common traits among them that identify them as part of the group. Skin color, hair type, bone structure, genetic predisposition to certain diseases, etc. Physical traits are passed from the parents to the children, and when the parents are of different races we get blending of the characteristics and so on. Some Native Americans even have different kinds of teeth than European-Caucasian descended folks do.
Basically it's not something you can choose or change, it's an immutable biological set of characteristics. I don't know what "race" the Jews in Israel are exactly but I suspect it depends a lot on the region their ancestors are from. Many of them might even be the same "race" as Palestinians.
What's the race here, African or Melanesian? And if it's the same race, why are they so separated geographically?
I don't know, just some mixture of African and Mongolian would be my guess. It would be more appropriate to ask the people in that picture IMO.
You'd be 100% wrong there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians
Maybe you're wrong on race as well.
So what? I said I don't know already. Do you want to keep on all day about this?
Go ahead and just believe whatever you want about all this, you will do that regardless of what I say.
Likewise there's nothing you can say that would change the facts of reality that I've already stated.
You said physical traits determined race. You couldn't determine race from physical traits.
You want to reduce everything into simple concepts just to argue about them. Reality is not that simple, and that's clearly not all that I said about the subject. There's no need to make up your own version of "what I said" when what I actually said is still there in plain text to read in the past comments.
https://www.udio.com/songs/tbPocL5cJz2kxoigiDiF2L
I'm not making anything up:
So do physical traits determine race or not?
But you never stated facts or reality.
You're trying to argue that races exist as something other than social constructs.
Different Races for humans have no genetic or biological basis. Period.
Blonde is not a race. Brown eyed is not a race. Brown skin is not a race. And on and on
No, and you fundamentally misunderstand biology, genetics, and race.
In essence, per Robert Saplosky, race is a cultural construct, not a genetic or biological one. He has his entire Stanford lecture on human behavior including human genetics on YouTube. He also has several books explaining this. Here's a link to a summary video: https://youtu.be/YVT5iIXdjek?si=jXKvfd3fUEdQcjMx
Just because you can reactively type people into races, doesn't make race a real biological phenomenon. There are plenty of races that look like others, plenty of admixture that ruins your theories. Sickle cell anemia can exist in white people (people who appear to look white) who have black ancestry, but you wouldn't know they have either sickle cell or black ancestry from looking at them. Because race ISNT genetics. There are people within the same family who are different races, one who is lighter and one who is darker, etc. And melanin production is only one small component of the cultural cues we see as someone's race.
Again, it's not biological and no real scientist would think that.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/YVT5iIXdjek?si=jXKvfd3fUEdQcjMx
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
From your source:
And
And
You seem to have linked something that argues and shows the opposite of what you intended there, bud.
Did you miss the whole section with the tree of races, showing the genetic differences in them? Maybe you didn't make it all the way through?
I think you might have just skimmed it. Throughout the paper the authors include examples of "race trees" which they argue have no places in scientific literature because they do not apply to humans.
I have an idea. Why don't you quote the section that proves your point. If I can't rebut you by copying and pasting context from the same paper, you win. Deal?
Why not pretend breeds of horses don't exist while you're at it?
Breeds are used to refer to domestic animals where artificial selection was used to exemplify specific traits.
Are you saying that the traits of different "races" were artificially selected for? Who was doing the selecting?
Your definition of breed is poor and self serving
But please, do tell me the real definition.
(Note that it says there's no scientific definition of breed either.)
I thought one of the best lessons was that you don't deal with an aggressive and genocidal nation through appeasement.
We should be fighting against Israel, not appeasing them.
That was also one of the lessons. It's why we are sending weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia and plan on defending Taiwan against China.
It would be a lot easier to do that if we hadn't be allied with Israel for over 75 years. It's not normal for allies to turn on each other like that.
Regardless, there can be more than one lesson from a historical event. Fascism is an idea. It has to be fought with other ideas.
that was the lesson from the start. that theres one way to stop fascism and genocide both.
the lesson from the end was: you didn't kill enough fucking Nazis.
who the fuck mentioned Jews here?
I'm talking about Israelis, cut your equivocating antisemitic bullshit. talk like that gets people killed by idiots who can't tell the difference, but know genocide is bad and Nazis dying is good.
we didn't stop Nazism because we didn't kill enough Nazis, on either side of the ocean. the fuckers who got social media in on it can be traced back to that. if we'd killed more Nazis then, we wouldn't have these problems now.