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this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024
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You're not a "raging leftist" if you vote for Biden. At least vote PSL or Green
This post is about you, you idiot.
Your vote for Dems is what endangers the vulnerable like those in poverty. You consent to wealth and income inequality with your vote, and can only blame yourself for not improving your country.
What do you think happens if I do that?
Actual progress towards changing the Democratic party instead of consenting to it's right wing policies that are enabled by your vote.
I did that in 2016 and it didn’t progress shit. It made it worse like it will if we do that this year. I organized and pushed leftists in primaries and I was beaten by "moderates." Specifically, nobody had a chance against the incumbent. It fucking sucks but I don’t want a declared fascist putting more assholes on judicial benches or pushing anti-trans, anti-women policies.
I’m with you on both parties sucking. But please, grow up. If you want to help, do it before the nominees are set. And don’t drag others into your misguided principles.
Did your lazy ass do anything else?
Jill Stein is a good candidate in a historically weak election for the ruling class.
I've gotten dozens of people to vote Green in my state, what have you done?
"There are dozens of us." lol
wtf have I done? I already said. Organized and gotten people elected to school boards, city council, and our mayor too. We primaried for state and federal elections but didn’t get our candidates. We didn’t pout and waste our votes on people who had no chance of getting elected. We sucked it the fuck up and tried to make sure Republicans didn’t get elected.
I don't believe you at all. Any person informed enough to do what you said knows voting for Democrats only makes out situation worse by consenting to neoliberal capitalism. None of the hundreds of people affiliated with the Green party I've met have said that, so you're lying.
Tell me you're not a pregnant woman who needs obstetric care of any kind or a capitol policeman or trans or Hispanic or a person who's trying to get sick days from their union or a Ukrainian
Yes, everyone knows that simply not consenting to the system suddenly makes it go away. Just ask anyone who's ever been on a traffic stop -- you just have to tell the policeman you do not consent, and all of a sudden, everything changes, and it works out better that you didn't go along with the system.
If only the civil rights movement had been privy to this knowledge, they could have done their decades of work to make the system better much more simply and easily
Well, that’s just a bad argument.
Good day, sir.
Project 2025, stupid. Letting Trump win means no progressive wins again in this country. Anti progress.
Imagine thinking you're defending democracy by voting for someone you don't want. LOL
Wow, you can type the opposite thing that someone said and pretend that you have a point. How incredibly stupid of you.
What exactly is Biden's plan to avoid letting a progressive win in the country ever again? Because Trump is the one with Project 2025.
Imagine thinking you’re defending democracy by voting for someone you don’t want. LOL
I, on the other hand, express democracy by voting for a candidate that I support, Jill Stein.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290
But Jill Stein is not going to win, even if you vote for her. Voting for her works against your interests.
Of course nobody should be terrorizing anyone. What I’m riffing off of is a perspective someone shared that basically you don’t protest with a vote for a loser, you protest by agitating for systemic change.
In the meantime while the broken system is in place, you feed it a minimally shitty input.
The fuck? Just vote for third parties where did you get that bullshit from?
You consent to this system with a vote for Dems.
Reasonable people can definitely disagree on this.
One thing that may be interesting to think about: some percentage of the time an argument is made disingenuously to try to siphon off votes. An entirely genuine recommendation of an identical strategy is fair – as I said reasonable people can disagree – but perhaps calls for some introspection.
It’s too bad when your strategy mirrors that of your worst enemy! So the far leftist could perhaps instead chain himself to legislators’ doors (vehement objection to the system) while consenting to acknowledge reality with a disgusted harm reduction vote for the marginally less-bad elderly man.
Do you think being incredibly stupid is a prereq for being a raging leftist or something?
It is a prereq for voting for Biden
No, understanding how the voting system works isn't stupid
You misunderstand the voting system because you vote for someone you don't like.
The best available choice isn't always one that you want to make. It's fine to hate the idea of voting strategically, I hate it too, but it's naive to think you can positively affect the system by going with the option you want the most.
Voting for someone you disagree with is not voting strategically, it's voting against your interests based on what you assume others will do.
No, we can say with absolute certainty that (barring any issues with mortality) either Trump or Biden will win this year. I assume others will vote for those two for the same reason I assume that the sun will rise tomorrow.
ETA: I was right about the sunrise. Check back in a few months to find out if I was right about the president!
Update: I was as right about the voting as I was about the sunrise. I'll try to remember to update you on whether Trump actually becomes president—shit's crazy lately, so you never know
Biden was a dogshit president, and you should be ashamed for ever supporting him or the Democrats instead of making a better candidate viable. That's your responsibility as a citizen, so no you were not right in any way, idiot.
Biden was (and is) a shit president, but it's pretty weird that you think Trump is better
But also, what I was right about is that it would either be the Democrat or the Republican
Nope, never said Trump was better, you're just trying to feel better about yourself.
I was right that you're too lazy to make any effort to change that, and deserve a Trump presidency for that.
Just so we're clear here, this whole argument has been about who the better candidate to vote for is. I made the prediction that the only two candidates who could possibly win were the Republican or the Democrat, and that the only way you could influence the election on November 5th was to vote for one of the two.
I was right, like I've been this entire time. If you don't think Trump is better than Biden (Harris, same diff), why did you let him get elected?
Why did you let him get elected? You supported someone who couldn't even get any delegates in the Democratic primary, she was going to lose. So I supported a better option, as you should have.
I didn't let him get elected, I voted for the only other candidate that could have possibly won. I could have just not voted, but you get how that's worse, right?
The better option is a candidate who can't possibly win?
Yes you did, by not creating a better alternative. I was saying it since 2020 and I'll say it until 2028 and be correct the entire time.
It's your responsibility to make them win, stop being a lazy, submissive, defeatist
How exactly was I meant to create a better alternative on November 5th, while I was at the polling place?
By voting for the better alternative
Which alternative? The only two people who could possibly have been elected as of November 5th were Harris or Trump. If you voted third party, you didn't vote. Do you think the Democrats even noticed the <1 million people who voted Stein?
Obviously should have supported another candidate, and it's your responsibility that another candidate did not have more support, I gathered support for one, it's very simple to understand. You and the laziness of all liberals is the reason trump was elected
You gathered support for another candidate, you knew they were going to lose the election, and you voted for them anyway. And I'm the bad guy for voting Harris?
I'm sure the people of Palestine are very proud of your for standing up for your ideals even though it's going to cost them their entire civilization
You don't know they're going to lose unless you try, which you are advocating against.
Go fuck yourself you worthless trash person using children being bombed to death by Kamala and Biden right now to make yourself feel better. Fuck you
I did, though. Remember? I called it months ago in this very thread
No, you instead advocated for genocide.
Read it again.
The two options were less genocide and more genocide, and you decided that letting more genocide happen is preferable to choosing less genocide. Don't tell me that I support genocide when you're willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people just to say "I didn't want you all to die! I voted third party!"
I hope, when you're in your twenties, you will have figured out that third party candidates are a waste of a vote. For the 1,460 days between elections, support the candidates you like. That's what I've done. But on the first Tuesday of November in 2028, look at the odds, and vote based on what is most likely to do the least harm. Being that 700,000th vote for Stein does nothing to help anyone, and you should know that.
doesn't matter how many times you read it you were wrong. you made absolutely zero effort in the past 4 years to make any decent candidate viable. you are 100% responsible for Trump
I was wrong? Who won the election?
Yes you were wrong. The same people who won if your candidate was elected, the rich. You lost a long time ago, and have resorted to ignoring kids being bombed to justify your positions