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this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2024
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Why is it so hard for doctors to take people seriously sometimes? I guess probably because of crazy people insisting there are worms in their skin, but it’s still unfortunate
Because we don't want doctors guessing or being creative. They're not the R&D creating engines, they're the mechanics.
I don't see how this analogy makes their arrogant dismissals any better.
I recall a mechanic changing a flat on my motorcycle acting pissy I was watching. I just had nothing better to do, far from home with a delaminating tire at shop out of walking distance to anywhere. I happened to catch him torquing the rear axle to sealed bearing specs. "DUDE....those are taper bearings in that hub" he quit giving me dirty looks. Now see a doctor would have yelled at me for googling how to pack a taper bearing 5 years before, and learning the difference years before that. Because of shitty doctors, I've also learned to prelimary determine if it's appendicitis or not. We both fucling well knew it wasn't a UTI but weren't getting much help, but at least set our.minds at ease she probably wasn't dying.
Their actions are correct. The attitudes are not. That's absolutely fair. They need to just say "I don't know".
Telling people to leave because they don't know is also not okay.
I'm confused. Then what should a doctor say when they don't know the answer?
Unable to delete so editing instead. Leaving Lemmy.world due to privacy concerns.
"I don't know but let's find out together". Requires confidence to say though.
They can damn well explain why they disregard some symptoms and why my online diagnosis is unlikely
Because they're arrogant bastards, no more intelligent than your average person, but convinced of their inherent superiority by education and surroundings.
I find that medical doctors and engineers both commonly suffer from huge superiority complexes and/or narcissistic tendencies (and I say that as someone with an engineering degree). I think a huge part of it is that everyone is constantly fawning over them and telling them how smart they must be to have made it through the schooling that they begin to believe it (combined with the fact that many people conflate academic success with intelligence).
As a chemistry major, I went to undergrad with tons of pre-meds that went on to become medical doctors and then I went to grad school in an engineering department. Believe me, plenty of idiots hold a degree (even an advanced degree) in these areas. Most medical doctors are just mechanics that specialize in troubleshooting one particularly poorly designed device, and many engineers are convinced that because they know how to fix or optimize one problem, they can spend a few days/weeks to learn more than experts in unrelated fields.
As an engineer (had to, very sorry) I noticed there is a 50/50 split between the “I am always right” and a massive imposter complex.
Doctors, never see the imposter complex. It’s kind of ridiculous. We also have to remember that science and engineering lead the advances in medicine, and most doctors fight us tooth and nail for the last several decades. They didn’t want to even wash their hands. Surgeons refuse to follow checklists thinking they are infallible, but when they do there is a measurable drop in patient mortality and infection.
Doctors and surgeons are glorified tech workers that need to be taken down several notches.
I definitely agree that the issue seems much more pervasive in doctors. Even my brother-in-law, who is about the least confident, most "imposter syndrome prone" person I've ever met has changed significantly since he graduated from med school, becoming first confident, then overconfident, so I definitely think it's a culture issue.
And while my experience with engineers was much more than 50% in the "I'm always right" camp, I am not a practicing engineer and most of my experience is from my time in a ChemE PhD program, so I was definitely seeing a skewed population.
As an IT admin that has worked in hospitals, nearly all of the docs I had to deal with couldn't comprehend simple things like capslock making their password not work and the fact that turning off the monitor doesn't shut down the PC.
And I'm reminded of the joke: "What do you call a doctor that graduated at the bottom of their class?"
Doctor...
This is my experience with IBD and drs. I have to explain the disease to them for them to understand so they can make decisions. I don't know why my consultant doesn't just make the decisions instead when he's the expert.
It reminds me of this video. The biotech girl with a PhD in cancer biology was so sure she was the smartest person in the room until she took an IQ test and ranked behind the military guy everyone picked for last.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RAlI0pbMQiM
The video is making a decent point, but doing it in a very, very flawed way. IQ tests are far from unbiased and don't really test intelligence; they test how well you can take an IQ test. And since the structure and questions on IQ tests are very biased against every demographic that's not "white, upper/middle class, male" all this video really shows is that a dude in the military knows how to take an IQ test.
I only linked it to support OP's point that doctors are just normal people but tend to be very overconfident. Your point is correct but I don't think it detracts from what I'm using the video to illustrate.
The whole video is a fun watch to see how people behave in tense social situations with strangers.
Would you be more likely to visit a doctor who could confidently diagnose everything, or was willing to admit they aren't 100% sure? Most people want answers, and would change doctors if they don't get an answer, or an answer they want.
A doctor who can confidently diagnose everything wrong is the worst kind of doctor. Even one who confidently diagnoses a smaller portion of things wrong is dangerous, because they will ignore evidence to the contrary. I'd much rather have one who says, "I think this is what you've got but we're going to test to be sure."
In my experience going to appointments with non-techy/sciency relatives, the doctor uses the correct language like in your quote, highlights uncertainties, etc. But then the patient interprets that language as if it’s a black and white “you have X and you need Y.”
One good reason to either have someone go with you or record the doctor talk is that people under stress don't listen well, don't process well, and don't remember well.
Also if they aren't sciencey, it's not unfair for them to look to the person who did all that school etc to have black-and-white answers for them. The other way leads to ivermectin, after all.
That is true. But it sounds like he had decent evidence?
I agree with the fact that doctors shouldn’t just diagnose everything because someone says that’s what they’ve got.
I really appreciate that my doctor will regularly admit they aren't 100% sure, and often sends me to specialists and for labwork to eliminate worst case scenarios and run things down.
I'd be more concerned if they just wrote off my concerns and symptoms because they couldn't immediately connect it to anything other than say, stress and lack of sleep.
That said, my relationship with my doctor is probably not the norm due to some lifelong health stuff that keeps me going in every 3 months or so, and I've had the same provider for a good number of years. We've had enough time together for them to know how I approach my symptoms and health.
I'm also privileged that I have decent enough insurance, salary, and job that allows me to go and actually do all that. Most people don't.
Back to the point though:
I totally understand the "just fix it!" mindset, but I feel like anyone who has had to spend a decent amount of time troubleshooting anything should realize that isn't always possible. Especially with things regarding the human body.
How many different things can go wrong with a car, a computer, or a business process, that from the outside all look like the same issue? None of these are realistically comparable to the complexity of a person. You're going to expect someone to just listen to a few minutes of your whining, pat you on the back, and send you off with an 100% reliable solution for an issue with something as mind bogglingly complex as a human body?
You can't just drop your body off at the shop, have a crew of people take their time diagnosing and fixing it, and get it back when they're done. You're going to have to hual that death trap junk heap from place to place yourself to get it in front of the right people first. They might have to call in a guy who's familiar with your specific make and model, or a guy that's experienced with electrical systems.
I dunno, the idea of some sort of "quick result" doctor visit that solves your exact issues and doesn't tell you things you don't want to hear just seems incredibly naive.
Agree completely, I too have lifelong health issues and I relate a lot to what you're saying. I hope you find better health and peace soon.
They get one shithead hypochondriac WebMD scroller and just assume every patient is an idiot.