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this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2024
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Ask Lemmy
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It was !worldnews@lemmy.ml ... so yeah, almost anyone that say anything against China. It's a tankie instance.
Use !world@lemmy.world instead.
It's !world@lemmy.world, the other one is a very inactive community.
Thanks, fixed it.
Lemmy.ml is only a tankie instance to someone that thinks Marxism=tankies
That said, at least one of the Worldnews mods is a pretty evident Pooh Poster.
They'll let people call out the more aggressive bullshit "America bad" rhetoric but if you even look at China funny you're going to eat a permaban.
There is nothing marxist about ml or other tankie places. They are just pure authoritarian brownnosers, and couldn't care less about actual socialism. Tankies are purely in it because they imagine they are going to be the ruling class after their imaginary "revolution", exactly the same way fascists are in it for.
bootlicking is like their religion
They believe in trickle down authoritarianism.
Probably not a great band name, but certainly a good album name.
I use this definition. And it perfectly applies to a wide range of lemmy.ml users and moderators.
That’s a bad definition.
A tankie is simply a ML who supports the use of force to restrict people’s freedoms. It’s named after the Soviets sending tanks into Hungary to stop a popular democratic uprising, but the same applies to China sending tanks into Tiananmen.
They’re basically super statists who value the state over the people.
All leftists are opposed to capitalism, but obvs tankies are a small minority of leftists, so your definition falls apart.
That's simply incorrect.
No it’s not.
The closest to support for capitalism would market socialism, but that still involves public ownership of the means of production, which is in difference to the defining feature of capitalism, private ownership of the means of production.
You should read up on social democracy.
Soc Dem was co-opted by right wingers, just the same as they stole the word Libertarian from us.
Soc Dems today are not leftist, Dem Socs are where the leftist part went.
And the People's Front of Judea needs to fuck right off, what a bunch of traitorous scum
I guess there's this American sense of capitalism as an ideological commitment to letting the forces of the marketplace run wild, and that once you regulate the markets it's not capitalism any more. That's laissez-faire though - there are other forms of capitalism as well. In the broadest sense capitalism basically boils down to having a market economy, which a lot of leftists are in favour of.
No, capitalism basically boils down to private ownership of the means of production.
A market economy is a market economy, hence market socialism. Market economies have existed for thousands of years, capitalism for a few hundred.
not just private ownership, but structures that ensure an increasingly concentrated private ownership by ever fewer people who use that advantage to create a set of rules that further increases the ownership gap
ie a system where the owners of capital get to make the rules
capitalism is antithetical to democracy
The clearest split between right wing and left wing is the belief in capitalism.
Of all the random things people downvote, I find this to be the most fascinating.
Not only are you correct, but you're so obviously correct as well. There's the old Jewish joke with "two Jews, three opinions" - that certainly holds true for leftists as well. Even more than the bootlickers I'm getting tired of the people who are so goddamn sure they've figured it all out.
What is a ML ?
Marxism-Leninism.
Lenin was a scholar and developed his own take on Marxism, which has its own understanding of the communist society. Marx wrote very little about what a communist society would look like, but he had an understanding of history as moving towards an end: The classes will fight, over time the result of this fight will lead to them approaching each other, and at the end of this struggle we will reach a classless society. This classless society is the communist society in a traditional Marxist sense.
Lenin figured he'd make a shortcut to get there: Never mind thousands of years of class struggle, let's just put in place a powerful ruling class imposing communism on everyone, designing a classless society from the top down. Which is a bit counter-intuitive, but the Leninist part of Marxism-Leninism basically boils down to trying to figure out what that could look like.
So then you get the Soviet Union, very much founded on the ideas of Marxism-Leninism. Today people who identify as Marxist-Leninist tend to not be the sharpest tools in the shed: Despite insisting that they have studied the texts carefully, a brief interaction with them reveals that they have never read neither Marx nor Lenin. What it boils down to, rather than anything theoretical, is either a longing for some imaginary version of the Soviet Union or a unshakable commitment to lick Putin's ass.
The Soviet Union of course never did become a classless society, so you could argue that the greatest achievement of Marxism-Leninism was to destroy the traditional meaning of communism in a Marxist sense.
Well said. The ML offshoot caused deaths of numerous communists and gave a reason to the red scare, harming the progress of Marxism for decades
I think Lenin missed the part where the powerful ruling class imposing something is the opposite of a classless society.
Marxist-Lenininist, or Stalinist. Sometimes Maoists are included. It's like a pseudofascist offshoot and later antagonist ideology of Marxism. Historically they've purged communists etc.
Marxist-Leninist.
They don't oppose capitalism (example Russia & China). It's closer to a support for authoritarianism (usually anti-USA, but even there shifts towards more authoritarian leadership receive support)
It's not that they don't oppose capitalism so much that they'll ignore any sense of ideological consistency on their quixotic quest to make sure that everyone knows America is Bad.
If you oppose America, you must be good, it doesn't matter if you're a genocidal kleptocracy or a genuine fascist. Internally this is rationalized by viewing America as the most dominant and powerful force for capitalism in the world, it doesn't matter if other, even worse capitalists tear it down because the American empire must fall for socialism to rise.
And it's not like that particular thought is wrong, in a vacuum. America has proven time and time again that it will break any moral barrier to attack anyone even suspected of being a socialist, it's just so evidentally self defeating you have to wonder if there are any true believers at all or if they're all sockpuppets run from a Russian speaking basement somewhere.
The vibe is exactly like the astroturf shit that flooded reddit in 2016. Endless criticism of Democrats in the US, while never mentioning US conservatives for some odd reason. That's why I get from the "Jor Biden really bad, genocide! Don't vote for him, vote 3rd party!" They come to US left/democrat/liberal spaces and try to convince people to not vote for Biden, but where are the efforts to convince people to not vote for Trump? And then this "you say everyone is a russian bot lol!!" thing is also exactly what the shills on reddit did.
Spot on. Whatever that's called, that sounds like much/most of the hexbear and ml instances.
Sadly, you're right. More to the point there are many examples of the US knocking down anything or anyone even suspected of threatening capitalists. Whether that's unions within the US, governments leaning too socialist (yet being democracies), or whatever else. I know you know this; I just felt like venting.
When they all come out with new talking points about the same time, all bearing remarkable similarity, and coinciding with notable (geo)political events, and brigading certain posts, it sure makes you go, "hmm."
its still part of Russian geoplitical strategy - shifts to the right are self-destructive and help USA's enemies
during the 80's, USA pushed the USSR's allies in South America to adopt more conservative governments as a means of destroying them from the inside, and today Russia is attempting to employ the same strategy against USA
Your definition is bad.
lmao
That sure sounds like classic tankie.
Lemmy.world was the one that blocked me from calling out russian bs. And everyday its nothing but linkerbaan being busy trying to convince everyone that Status Quo Joe is the worst thing in the world bc Gaza.
No, you were banned from .ml as is evident in the logs of both sites:
.ml:
.world:
Ahh, thanks for the clarification, but i have tried to post in the .world instance with no avail.
Yeah, the linkerbaan guy is an obvious russian bot/troll, I've blocked him a long time ago.
I'm inclined to believe that they might be genuine. The comments are too well-written for a mere spam/bot/troll account.
The sheer volume of these comments and posts does feel very spam-like though
Yeah, they pay real people to act as professional trolls.
Good choice. I have tagged him as a dbag or something in Sync lol.
Yeah. He's an obvious troll. The bigger problem is that when I've called him out in the past, a mod here has deleted my comments for misleading reasons. So it's obvious that at least one of the mods does support Russian bs. Of course, there are other mods who do give him the occasional ban so he calms down a bit.
I've said this elsewhere, but if you're angry about what's happening in Gaza, you really don't want 'friends' like that supporting your cause. One spoilt apple ruins the bunch. It's like if you run a children's hospital that accepts donations from Gary Glitter.
My thing with it is, ive bwen privately/publicly bitching about the apartheid state known as Israel for the past 15+ yrs, but now, now is when everybodys taking note, when the october attack by hamas was, in part, part of a larger russian effort to draw attention away from the area in Europe they have since called a stepstone multiple times now. And now these voices conveniently ignore that US policy towards israel has always been unconditional financial/military support. But suuuure, its all bidens fault. As if the geriatric neolib picked out of a hat bc he was the closest thing to "average" for our politics over the past 60 yrs was the problem, and is if there was no chance of their being intelligence available to the president that isnt available to the rest of us.
Support Gaza, but remember that Ukraine is where the bigger worldwide threat is.
Imma go bash China brb... okay... i said I hated China. Well see ....
o7