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this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024
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Lotta good people you're throwing out with the bathwater there, but fuck 'em, I guess. You're stoking the flames whose destruction you condemn.
Super-liberal here who moved to Alabama because the jobs were too good and the cost of living is great; I'm going to do my best to vote these fuckers out and try to get more liberals moving into the state. The conservatives are doing their fucking best to disincentivize liberals to move here, but GA is a good example that liberals can flip a state.
I've said this before, but if I was a billionaire like Soros, I'd spend some time on trying to get people to relocate with direct financial incentives. Form some kind of foundation/not for profit that sets up places in red states for people most likely to vote Democratic to move there, have jobs, and have a decent quality of life. Often it's going to be cheaper, too.
It's only due to the way we are dispersed in this country that we keep getting too many cons in office. Someone with the money could hire people to make this happen...
It would not even take that many people moving to the right states and the Republican Party would be nearly powerless.
I don't know where you're seeing "good people" in the South. I live in Tennessee and I have to endure hearing people every goddamn day talking about destroying the country just to get back at the "left."
It's the only place I've ever seen "Trump Stores." And these people are ravenous about a second civil war. I just refuse to engage in trying to save people who don't want to be saved. Fuck the lot of them.
Imagine a gay woman living in Alabama. There's certainly a lot of them, we're everywhere after all. Do you think she's going to say what she really thinks while around strangers? Or is she going to keep her head down and try to avoid getting hate crimed?
You are in the bible belt. Should we abandon you too?
I'm not staying here. I've been planning my exit from this shit hole and the people here for a few months. I'm a gay man who has simply had enough.
There's no saving these people. The good ones are leaving, the rest are some of the worst people in the country; they either are dismissive of what's going on or indifferent.
Why would I waste my time voting here when my vote literally means nothing? This is a traitor enclave.
These people don't give a shit about anyone who doesn't go to their church, which is very denomination exclusive. You can't make them be civilized.
Not everyone can afford to leave. Should we leave them to die?
You, yourself, haven't left yet. What if we abandoned the south before you had time to move? Oh, maybe you're the Last Good Person in the south, and once you're gone we can leave the rest to suffer! It's their fault for being born in the wrong states, after all. Especially the ones that are going to be born because their mothers were forced to give birth. They deserve it.
I'm not saying anything about whether or not I'm a good person. I'm saying that the number of good people here is a lot lower than you imagine. Pull up the draw bridge, IDGAF, I'll swim if I have to, but the American South is a shit hole that didn't deserve the reconstruction. They've not learned a goddamn thing.
Not everyone can escape. Do they deserve to suffer and die?
And maybe we won't just blow up the bridge. Maybe we build a wall! Why not? You're all evil, we don't need that blight on our society. In fact, why not declare war? Why not kill literally everyone! D o n t y o u a l l d e s e r v e i t? 🙄
Jesus Christ, you must be fun at parties...
The writing has been on the wall for quite a long time. Anybody that stays behind does so at their own risk. I'm not being lynched here. I'll take in others who want to leave when I get to where I'm going.
This isn't a fun topic. You're basically saying "everyone who gets lynched deserves it".
No, I'm not "basically" saying that, but nice strawman attempt.
I have no interest in being a white knight. I'm fucking leaving. I don't have any obligation to financially cover people who can't leave; they have to make that decision.
What I'm saying is that the rest of the people here, the ones actively calling for the deaths of the LGBTQ+ are as useful as taste buds on an asshole.
I will not waste another breath on trying to convince them that they're horrible people. Not even within my own family. When the South inevitably attempts a second civil war, I'll help my LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters should they get to where I am. But they have to find the impetus to do so.
Vibe check
Do you think I'm telling you to stay in the south? I never said that. I just specifically am pissed off by you saying "Nothing in the Bible belt is worth saving." That's it. You're free to leave, it isn't your job to sacrifice your life for voting lol
And it isn't your job to defend the shittiest people on the planet, who by the way want you dead just as much as they do me. The difference is you want to defend the South.
This is an abusive relationship; the first time I get beat is the other person's fault. Every time after that is mine. I'm simply choosing to leave, and you want to victim shame. Bravo.
I got jumped in Daytona Beach in 2021. Three dudes in a pickup truck hopped out and beat the fuck out of me because I was wearing a pride bracelet. I was just able to recall enough of the truck to identify it, but because I didn't get the tag, they never caught the guys. The cops refused to treat it as a hate crime.
I left, even though I couldn't afford to do so. So your description of people not being able to leave doesn't pass the smell test.
Are there places in the North where I won't be safe? Of course. I'm not going to Boston. But I'm leaving the South because of the aforementioned abusive relationship analogy.
Again, I'm in no way obligated to get lynched because other people decide to stay. And believe you me, staying in a place full of people who jerk it at night thinking about killing the LGBTQ is a choice.
I literally never told you to stay. You've been arguing against a strawman of your own creation this entire time.
I don't want to defend "the South", it's a rotten culture that grew out of the Confederacy and there should have been a cultural revolution during Reconstruction. I want to defend the people in the South who are going to get lynched. People like you! You're literally one of the people that you're saying are the shittiest people on the planet. How many millions are just like you?
This broad "they" you keep using is a lot of people and you're just condemning millions of people to death because a lot of them are Christian nationalist crackers.
The fuck are you even taking to me for, then? Hit the bricks. Your opinion is diminishing in value with every reply. I don't have the time to sit and argue with an SJW with a shitty attitude who has done nothing but strawman me to death with hypotheticals.
Someone else responded to my initial comment with something about nukes, do you, for some reason, think that was me? I've not "condemned" anybody. I think you've got me fucked up with somebody else, so take that delightful attitude of yours and direct the vitriol elsewhere.
And, to be very clear, the South is 99% Christian nationalists, particularly in the Bible belt. Zero percent of them are worth saving. None.
This is why I'm talking to you. This is just made a percentage you made up. The politics are so much more complicated and you're writing off innocent people out of your - justified - personal grievances. Hating your enemies is good (they hate us after all!) but you need to make sure you're correctly identifying your enemies.
The religious affiliations of adult people in Alabama are as follows: Christian – 86%, Non-Christian Faiths – 1%, Other faiths – 1%, Unaffiliated (religious "nones") – 12%
Yikes, right? However, we can subdivide this further. Of those Christians, Evangelicals (the ones chiefly associated with the Christian Nationalist political movement) represent 49% of all Christians. Yikes again! They're almost a majority of all Christians, and Christians are the extremely dominant majority of all people in Alabama. Those are our enemies.
Instead of just giving up on the South we need to unite all the disparate groups against Christian Nationalism and crush them like the cockroaches they are. We can defeat them and we can't just give up and let them win the South.
We need a new Reconstruction.
Those percentages are meaningless. If I walk into a restaurant and see a guy at a table with 9 Nazis, I see a table with 10 Nazis.
Christianity has 2 groups left; the people who are fascist motherfuckers and the people that condone fascist motherfuckers because they get what they want out of it. That's 99% of the South. That other 1% are people who need to leave.
I don't have any inclination whatsoever to engage with the Christians. None. They want to start shit, I'll be glad to finish it with a fucking smile on my face, but I'm not into fighting the American Al-Qaeda alone and I damn sure don't have any reason to live amongst them in the meantime because you think I have a duty to do so.
Again, when did I ask you to fight Y'all Qaeda alone? In fact I literally said you're free to leave and it isn't your job to stay in the South to fight them in the first place! You keep building up strawmen to attack and I don't know why.
As to the legitimate point that "If I walk into a restaurant and see a guy at a table with 9 Nazis, I see a table with 10 Nazis." I think it's worth pointing out they aren't at the same table. They don't go to the same churches, they aren't in the same social groups, they're literally different.
I'm comfortable saying all the Evangelicals are enemies but not literally all Christians when some denominations literally have queer pastors and do same sex weddings and the like. There's clearly different factions and we need to drive deeper wedges between them instead of lumping them together.
Don't go around making more enemies - we have enough of them.
Let me say this unequivocally so there's no way to get it twisted; Christians are my enemy. I don't have a single reason to break them down by denomination to figure out which lunatic sect is better or worse than the others. They are all equally worthless.
Just exactly what are you saying? Because you've been trying to guilt trip me about leaving this den of shit bags for the entire thread... Saying I'm "leaving people behind to die" which is incredibly dramatic seeing as I'm still here at present.
And keep in mind, I've been behind enemy lines doing my fucking part my entire adult life. There's nothing else I can do. Not that my vote in a red state did much of anything at all. Exactly what do you expect me to do? Have you never been to Tennessee? They threaten to attack city council members for just asking them to clean up their yards. We're not talking about some idyllic Southern caricature here. This is a place full of "God Hates Fags" bumper stickers and even the police are scared to pull over people in pickup trucks because they know those people are carrying weapons. This isn't going to be a boastful march out of town for me. It's sneaking out under the cover of darkness.
Then let me say this unequivocally so there’s no way to get it twisted. I was objecting, specifically, to when you said "nothing in the bible belt is worth saving". That's an incredibly fucked up thing to say and we shouldn't abandon the innocent people who can't escape. We should do what we can to save the people worth saving. We should try to find Christian allies that can be aligned against the Christian Nationalists. That doesn't mean I expect you to personally live in the South, that'd be stupid, I live in Iowa and I'd be a huge hypocrite to demand that of you.
Not you. Us.
But when you say "nothing in the Bible belt is worth saving" you are ignoring the fact that there are people down there that need our help and it's in our own best interests to help them, because they will be crucial allies against Christian Nationalism. Nothing means no one. Fuck that. There are people in the South worth saving from the South. They're not all monsters and we need all the help we can get, and they need us too because with the way politics in this country are going the mass lynch mobs and race riots are going to be starting up again very soon.
I understand hating Christians. I did too for many years (I was born in Kentucky) but they're not all monsters. Christians are literally the majority in the US. You have to grapple with this if you want to win when this cold culture war goes hot. I have not, at all, been guilt tripping you about leaving. Get the hell out of there. I am only angry that you're saying we should give up on the South entirely.
At the very least, we're going to need allies for when we reinvade them and force them to go through a new Reconstruction period.
Well, I presume you're one of the good people, aren't you? I don't want to burn you to the ground along with the rest of Tennessee, even if you're a willing sacrifice. Any scorched earth tactic has to be preceded by getting people like you out of harm's way first.
I'm all for an LGBTQ "Underground Railroad"-esque method of getting us out of harm's way. What I'm against is the notion by another commenter that I should have to stay here and help the people who, for whatever reason, are so poor that they can't pack stuff in boxes and leave. The goalpost can't just move that much. If your life is in danger, you don't just stay put because you might not financially recover. That's bullshit. And no one should stick around, under consequence of death, to help me. What kind of person just folds their arms as days "I'm not leaving until someone else risks their life to help me."
Also, my initial comment was that nothing in the Bible belt is worth saving. As in putting in effort to try and change their minds or shitty attitudes. Someone replied with something about nukes. I never insinuated anything of the sort. Granted, the entirety of the Bible belt could be hit by tornadoes and the Country would only be out by a can of Skoal, a pack of Marlboro Reds, and the entirety of the incest category on Pornhub.
Almost every front yard in Tennessee looks like a landfill and in one city, the county was discussing starting a code enforcement program and several people threatened to attack the city council. One guy even mentioned using a tank do do it. You cannot even legislate these people to have a modicum of class. These people are trashy and they aim to stay that way. It's all they know or care to know.
I had a coworker bring up the border situation a week ago and I asked him, a guy who could to be "super religious" (his words, not mine) what Jesus would want him to do, and he said, and I quote, "Jesus would want me to help the national guard shoot the ones that are trying to get here illegally." He and our boss, who is Catholic, got into a very heated debate about that. Guns are their solution to everything here, including the LGBTQ.
For as bad as you've read that it is here in the news and online, it's actually worse.
Oh absolutely, there is no expectation at all that you should have to stay and fix the place. It's admirable of those who want to try, but I'm a firm proponent of saving your own ass first. If you're LGBT in a red state, I'd honestly prefer you get the hell out of dodge than stay and try to fix it.
I grew up in Missouri and I lived in Houston for a couple years. I feel no obligation to fix Texas. I don't feel obligated to fix Missouri, although I want to. If laws come out targeting me and my loved ones though, then I'm heading out.
I greatly respect martyrs because I don't think anyone should ever try to be one. I care way too much about saving my skin, selfish as it sounds.
i don't expect you to sacrifice yourself. i just think it's likely you're not the sole "good people" in bama.