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‘I would not have pulled Lush out of Russia if it weren’t for public pressure’
(www.telegraph.co.uk)
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this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
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why would he say the quiet part out loud? how would this not make him seem like a piece of shit?
i tried to read in the article where he might say something about why but it really is just 'profits at all costs'.. wants to avoid the use of words like 'ethical'.. gotcha. i understand what kind of person you are now.
I think this is misrepresenting what he said. His stance is basically that he felt like they were punishing honest workers and business partners, people who never lied or cheated or hurt anyone, for something that they had no part in due to public pressure. He’s not wrong either unless people have some kind of explanation for how a cosmetics manufacturer is supposed to stop Putin from murdering innocent Ukrainians fighting against his pointless war and innocent Russians who don’t want to fight for him.
Because it might apply pressure to those rich enough to influence Putin. Because it slows their economy. Because it sends a message.
It's one raindrop in the flood. But without raindrops, there is no flood.
So, considering it hasn’t made a difference and Russia is still attacking Ukraine and Putin is still in power, how do you reconcile what you just said with the reality of the situation?
The only thing that’s changed is that Lush’s partner in Russia and all their employees have no income now.
So because it didnt immediately and totally fix the problem theres no point to it? Is that the "argument" you're making?
Lush did this in March of last year. I’m just asking what you’re expecting from this considering that they did do what you suggested. When is the effect you’re saying is supposed to happen going to happen?
You don’t have to be an asshole. It’s a legitimate question based on your assertion that all that needs to happen is pressure needs to be put on people.
I think you're the one being an asshole here.
How am I being an asshole? By pointing out that what you claim should happen hasn’t happened in the slightest?
You made a claim. I’m just asking you to justify it.
And all im doing is asking if you think that because it's not fixed the problem straight away it's not worth doing?
Plenty of people have already explained how targeting Russias economy puts pressure on Putin.
Yes, but no one has explained how the economy is harmed by harming individual Russians. If it’s not making a difference so far, how long do Russians who have nothing to do with the war suffer before we decide it’s a failed strategy? How long do Ukrainians suffer while we keep doing things that are not having an effect?
Yeah but that's what sanctions are. It's not really possible to have convenient sanctions. How would that work.
And at the end of the day if that interpretation is true, your essentially saying 'bad fucking luck' to all the Russians who lost their jobs while living in a country perpetrating a war that if they speak out against, they'll be jailed at best.
You're right, there's no convenient sanctions but if that's really what old mate Lush is saying, he's got a point.
i mean, this is one way to win a war. the other is with bombs and death. Russia chose to enter this war, it shouldn't be surprised when it affects its citizens.
no one should get to keep their war over seas and out of their own borders.
imagine a future where we could stop wars by just taking people's jobs...
Well, killing people using economy seems more humane than killing people using bombs, so I have to agree
Yes… I think that’s exactly what he’s saying.
Uhhuh and I was showing my dislike of that. It's good you can follow the conversation.
Wow. You’re fun.
Sanctions are typically the acts of a government state not the actions of a business. Businesses have to comply with them but only if they’re bound by them. That wasn’t the case here. Lush did this based on public outcry, not sanctions.
A cosmetics manufacturer alone? No.
All western companies leaving however can make an economic hit that will benefit Ukraine.
As for the Russians? They can revolt or do something, otherwise they suffer. Who cares about them.
So all the western companies that did leave at the start of the war… what effect has that had? The war still continues, Russia took over copyrights and trademarks to continue global brands going internally, and Putin is still President.
When is this economic hit supposed to happen and when will its effects cause this change everyone is claiming? It’s nearly 2024 and these companies left in March of 2022.
Russias economy is the effect it had, or do you think Russia today is in as good a state as before the sanctions?
You seem to expect an overnight collapse of society? The world doesn’t work that easily.
Russia’s GDP increased by 3.1% this year compared to last. The sanctions you mention did far more than western companies pulling their business from the country.
I’m not expecting an overnight collapse. I’m expecting quantifiable effects, such as those from the sanctions from other countries and the EU, that are actually measurable after 2 years.
I guess that makes me an asshole, though.
GDP is not an indicator of a healthy economy.
Likewise every action that hurts Russia is beneficial even if you personally can’t see the effects of it.
I just don’t see how it hurts Russia as a nation. I only see it hurting Russians who have nothing to do with the state’s actions.
Russians have everything to do with their states actions.
In fact they have more to do with it than anyone else on the planet as it is their responsibility
Again, this assumes Russia’s elections are run freely and fairly which we know is not the case.
Why would it assume that?
Revolt or die, idc.
You're a little flog sitting in your western first world nation home that mum and dad likely own and you're judging people on the other side of the world living under a dictatorship.
Absolutely no fucking idea.
They suffer if they revolt too.
Judging by your name, you're an Aussie and I've got to say, disappointed in your complete writing off of the entire Russian population. How the fuck is some young girl working at Lush supporting Putin or deserving of suffering if they don't revolt?
Her taxes directly support the war. It's not as easy as people are good and bad. Good people can be in bad situations. Sanctions are supposed to hurt all people. That's how they work. It's seen as a lesser evil, rather than a good. They are damaging for both sides.
Why are you commenting this to me? I’m the one that pointed out that the parent’s interpretation of the story was wrong in the first place.
If stopping Putin from being in government is the only fix, the only possible action anyone could take would be ending Putin. Anything else would be useless.
It isn’t though, non-offensive actions have effects too.
That assumes that Russia has fair elections where voting would make a difference…
What non-offensive action could Lush’s production partner take that would make any difference?
They could just pff putin, no one would be offended.
That would have both a more immediate and impactful effect than…checks notes… stopping luxury soap production…
good points, thank you.
I think the article paints a pretty good portrait of a complicated but socially responsible business owner, even though I do think pulling out of Russia was the right thing to do even if it wasn't what he would've chosen.
That's the name of the game with carotidien. Profits at all costs.
And some people still say that the customers are helpless and calling for boycott doesn't work...
If people would demand other industries to be more in line with their moral values (like about climate change) that could also change a lot