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this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
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Kids don't know or understand the damage this can cause someone.
They see it as a joke most of the time.
It needs to be made illegal and the kids properly educated about why.
It's easy as an adult to condemn these children but we have a lot more life experience.
So, you’re saying both:
So… you think the solution to childish behavior is putting kids in jail?
*deep breath* lemme try to see a more logical interpretation….
Wait, you did mention education, ok I musta missed that on my first read.
So educate the kids, and if they don’t learn… jail
Jail is not the only possible punishment for anything illegal.
Regardless, you want to punish children for childish behaviour.
That is correct. You punish and educate children who do things wrong. Timeout's a new concept to you?
You may be from the US, where this isn’t really a concept, but there is significant evidence that you actually can teach better with proper rewards for good behaviour than you can with punishment for bad behaviour.
I’m actually not sure what the science says about doing both together (maybe I’d read on it more if I actually had kids), but personal experience and discussions at least indicate that parents who punish consistently, rarely couple it with equivalent rewards/praise.
But maybe you and/or your parents are different.
Personally, I just got punished a lot for having ADHD. Not that they knew it at the time, but it turns out that’s effectively what was happening. And for people with ADHD, small immediate rewards are WAY more effective than potential, delayed punishment, even if severe.
Positive reinforcement is a known concept in the US. Who ever told you other wise misled you.
Science says we teach alternative behaviors and provide positive reinforcement for socially appropriate behaviors. Punishment (which isn’t just jail, it can be stuff like detention if we’re not losing our heads here) if it’s not paired with a replacement behavior is the least effective. Usually you reserve punishment for “danger to self or others” behaviors..
Now, as to where this behavior falls. Having AI generated porn of yourself all over the internet as a young girl in some of the puritan towns in the US? That could be an absolute nightmare for the victim this of course something has to occur. Perhaps punishment would be best direct towards those who should know better (parents). Here, the harm being to others…how can we replace this particular behavior? Yes, education, but there also needs to be something better for these kiddos to be doing with their time.
Further reading can be found in punishment, reinforcement, functional replacement behavior.
Publish ai porn of everyone in the town until they get the point
Publish ai porn of everyone ~~in the town until they get the point~~
There is "childish behavior" that results in someone getting traumatised in virtually all schools.
Dropping heavy rocks off a highway overpass is childish behavior.
https://tenor.com/bizhh.gif
Didn't say jail, you did. I in fact didn't talk about punishment at all.
But there has to be consequences.
If kids steal we don't just throw them straight in jail. But it is a possible consequence.
We're also talking about 14 year olds not literal children.
14 year olds are absolutely literally children
What's with remnants of reddit and pretending teenagers are kids? They aren't, they are teens, they can even make babies with themselves, drive and vote.
Oh so why are red states demanding that they be mothers?
Illegal necessarily implies punishment, as far as I understand.
Also, 14 year olds are children. But the trajectory of this conversation is clear, and it’s not going anywhere.
Well that's the result when you put words in peoples' mouths, instead of trying to have a discussion.
If I don’t make any logical steps given the limited words provided in a conversation, then communication becomes impossibly slow. Therefore i feel that I have to make such logical steps. Because text based communication, in the current times, is a bandwidth constraint on the passage of concepts between two human minds. In this case, because of said bandwidth constraint existing between your brain and mine, I made the step and assumed that when you mention making something illegal, that you meant that governments should prohibit the act and do as they (in my understanding) typically do and enforce said prohibition with threat of incarceration. That may have been an oversimplified view of the judicial system, there are other means of enforcement, but I’m only really familiar with the idea of children either being incarcerated or maybe given community service, but I usually (I’m not sure why) given to believe that community service isn’t usually a statutory punishment, but rather a discretionary adjustment that a judge can afford someone. It’s also worth noting that I have concerns about the way in which minorities are disproportionately sentenced, procecuted, and ultimately harmed by the judicial system. Concerns which bias my thoughts when the subject is raised. But I’d like to make clear that I’m using the term bias a bit more strictly, as in every human has a bias against/for basically everything.
So, if I may take another leap, it seems you’re implying that you are specifically talking about me, and not using “you” in the general sense. And I’ll assume you’re actually referring to this current conversation, and claiming that I caused this outcome because I put words in your mouth. Oh, and by that you’re saying (again, these are my assumptions) that I’m claiming that you said something which you never actually said.
So maybe, if you take some logical leaps for the sake of me being able to type this in my life time, you can see that I was not necessarily trying to maliciously misconstrue what it is that you were saying.
And in case it’s not clear, the above is conveyed with mild contempt for you.
It's actually called a straw man logical fallacy.
You exaggerated what I said and then attacked your exaggeration.
Are you familiar with the fallacy fallacy?
Oh so you're one of those people who think anyone who points out a logical fallacy should be sent straight to prison.
That's absolutely stupid, no idea how you can genuinely think that.
It's obvious this discussion won't go anywhere with you believing crazy stuff like that, so let's just leave it here.
How can you expect a conversation to go anywhere when you’re fighting w a stawman. I never made any claims what so ever about fallacy fallacies.
Bingo.
Bongo
What sort of "consequences" are you talking about that aren't punishment?
https://dare.org/
If your argument is "The educators just need to make sure the kids learn that this is not a joke", DARE has been educating students about the dangers of illegal drugs for 40 years.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-dozens-of-u-s-adolescents-are-dying-of-drug-overdoses-each-month-shown-in-3-charts
You might persuade some, but the problem will not go away.
DARE is known as a bad program, because it goes for fear mongering rather actual education. Everyone knows someone who uses marijuana, and they're teeth haven't all fallen out and they're haven't turned into a psychotic murderer. [VOX - Why anti-drug campaigns like DARE fail
](https://www.vox.com/2014/9/1/5998571/why-anti-drug-campaigns-like-dare-fail)
There are good and bad ways to go about education. Like comprehensive sex education vs abstinence only, even though they're covering the same topic, actual education is much more effective than just say no. [NLM Abstinence-only and comprehensive sex education study
](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18346659/)
That was my point. DARE didn't stop drug use. Any education will persuade some. However, unless the students and their families buy in at 100%, this problem isn't going away.
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-high-adults-unable-basic-mathematical.html
Education alone is not going to make this go away.
I 100% agree that education alone will not resolve the issue, but I believe education can help the efficacy of other approaches.
I did a report on the dangers of LSD when I was young.
I learned it’s impossible to overdose on and nobody has died directly as a result of it.
I had never been so interested in trying something out. “Okay so the world becomes crazy for 4-8 hours and you see crazy stuff and everything is hilarious and you can’t die at all and all you gotta do it be in a comfy set and setting”
God damn, Imma clean out a vial and watch Enter the Void
Quick edit: staring at my MacBook Pro turned into fractals and it’s just fucking anodized aliminium wtf that’s cool
DARE is not a good example to hold up because the program doesn’t work.
Although some studies reveal that DARE has the positive effects of promoting positive police- juvenile relations and imparting accurate information about drugs and drug use, but it does not appear to deter drug use.
Edit: to clarify, DARE has always been flawed and ineffective. There was a study in 1994 that showed this yet it didn’t stop or change the program.
You're using DARE as a positive example‽ the DARE program is widely considered to be an enormous failure. Here's a decent rundown:
https://www.talkitoutnc.org/dare-program-effectiveness/#:~:text=program%20failed%20to%20live%20up,rate%20of%20teen%20drug%20use.
(But if you just search it up you'll find hundreds of similar articles)
I was in school when the DARE program was quite strongly promoted and I specifically remember being fed endless misinformation about drugs. It was never about educating children it was about trying to scare them with bullshit.
"If they were wrong about marijuana being addicting they're probably wrong about everything else..."
...aaaaand that's how young people ended up trying all sorts of new things they shouldn't have.
Other people seem to think you're holding up Dare as a positive example. I can tell you're not, but I don't think it's a great negative example either. So much of the content is fear mongering bullshit that anyone who actually encounters drugs in real life will see through it.
Education works a lot better when you teach kids things that aren't directly contradicted by their experiences or their peers'.
Education will persuade some.
Education alone will not make the problem go away.