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this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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Well well well. I thought Russia said the nazis were in Ukraine. Huh. Funny, that.
"But Vladimir, you were never going to find any Nazis out there! The Nazis were in you all along!"
Perhaps the true nazis were the friends we made along the way.
both can be true
Sure it can. But that doesn't mean it is.
Oh I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find one or two nazis hiding anywhere, even if they don't identy as nazi or even know what it means.
But Russia, with its actions, have proven themselves to be an imperialist, nationalist, fascist piece of shit. And while both could be true, actions speak louder.
integrating the azov brigade into the national guard sounds like a bunch of Nazis are in the government to me.
Yeah, it's a problem. A threatened country integrated a fascist militia into its army. Yes, and that's bad.
But the country as a whole does not like Nazis at all, and doesn't vote for them.
"In the 2019 Ukrainian elections, the far-right nationalist electoral alliance, including Svoboda, National Corps, Right Sector, Azov Battalion, OUN, and Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists, under-performed expectations. In the presidential election, its candidate Ruslan Koshulynskyi received 1.6% of the vote, and in the parliamentary election, it was reduced to a single seat and saw its national vote fall to 2.15%, half of its result from 2014 and one-quarter of its result from 2012."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine
The country has a Jewish president and a Muslim cabinet minister. Sound like a Nazi country to you?
Agreed. Remember the golden rule of warfare: so long as the guy beside you is shooting in the right direction, you can sort your differences out later.
identity politics are boring. there were Jewish collaborators in the third Reich.
In most cases, Jews who chose to collaborate with Nazis did so to guarantee their personal survival, which distinguished them from most other ethnic groups who collaborated with Nazi Germany. It's not exactly a fair comparison.
but you see that identity is not a preventative for fascism, right? I don't think the president of Ukraine is any more fascist than Biden or Obama. but I also take a pretty dim view of them.
While voting is a necessary but insufficient way to combat fascism, 96% of voting Ukrainians choosing to not support fascism is a good indicator that fascism is NOT on the agenda in Ukraine. A fascist coup by that 2% supporting fascism would be opposed by the vast majority of Ukraine.
You completely ignore that fact with your hardon for attacking the identity of persons chosen by the Ukrainians.
Edit to explain: I made no argument on what Zelinsky as a Jew or the Muslim cabinet member would be politically, which would be identity politics. This statement of fact (Zelinsky is Jewish) was relevant to the political preferences of the Ukrainian people. Fascists don't choose Jews and Muslims to represent them.
Zelinsky is a pretty terrible neoliberal, and I'm not actually a fan. But I am a fan a national self determination. So was Lenin.
this is a spurious accusation and you should apologize
Where's Azov now, and where's Rusich?
you can't believe anything I've said is defending any country or group of Nazis.
I don't pick my favorite nazis here too lol. I point out one had 9 years of being dismantled and intermixed with regular corps, meaning it's non-existent by now, and one is still intact and active as it's own entity.
i don't believe this is true for a second. integrating was wrong: some of those Nazis surely stayed in leadership, shaping an even larger recruitment base. that shit doesn't just disappear. it must be rooted out.
I'm not justifying keeping Nazis around.
I don't make a distinction between the Nazis on one side of a border or the other.
You need to study the subject more closely before stating that (: Slavik nazism is a deep rabbithole, but for the purpose of this article, I compare two governments, and one of them does indulge in that kind of rhetoric more than the other.
I don't think either government is any better than the other. I don't think either set of Nazis is any better than the other.
Russian Nazis don't make Ukrainian Nazis any better
Let's get this perfectly straight:
There are no nazis in Ukraine. Ukraine is not behaving like a fascist country. So your downplaying of Russia is crap. You're making up a middle ground that doesn't exist. To what end I don't know, but I'm starting to think you're not merely ignorant but actually have an agenda.
Sorry, but there are nazis in Ukraine. Lots of them. As in any slavic country.
The difference is: their government doesn't support them and is now under offence by a country that dismisses them having any identity.
that's a lie
I hardly think "fuck Nazis" is middle ground.
Strawman. :D
Yes there are stupid people everywhere. In most places they aren't literally running the country.
It's a bit unsettling how this statement resembles whataboutism often employed by Russian politicians to brush off any criticism
I'm not downplaying any criticism of Russia. fascism is always bad.
Russia never said that. Putin did.