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this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023
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Millennials: Uhm, we've been living that dream for over twenty years now.
I'm over 40 (one of the ancient Millennials) and literally I have only been able to live alone for exactly four years out of the twenty-three years since I moved out of my parents. I currently live with a partner, because, you guessed it, it's about the only way we can afford things now.
In a city of 200k I can rent a two bedroom apartment for about 1.2k and have access to everything I might possibly need (including a job) except an Ikea...
Edit: funny how people get insulted when they're told wanting to live in major city centers might be the issue... Nothing new about living in New York being more expensive than Albany.
"Well it worked for me so if you can't do it then you're just not trying hard enough!" Don't be intentionally obtuse. There are jobs in major cities.
People also have other shit in their lives you know nothing about. You have no idea what every single person does for a living. Maybe they work for the government and need to be near a military base, or the state capital happens to be a major metro area. Maybe they live near their elderly parents they take care of. Maybe they have family nearby who can watch their kids while they go to work and if they moved they'd have to start paying a ton in childcare. Maybe there's a cheap private school there and they don't want to have to switch their kid to public school. Maybe they have a chronic health condition or disability and need to live near the best doctors. Maybe one person went back to college and the classes they need are on campus. Especially if it's a higher degree where they can't just go to any community college in buttfuck nowhere. Maybe they had to move there for a postdoc fellowship. But why am I telling you when you already have all the answers.
I met someone who moved to Albany to get an advanced degree and they hated it. They alluded to the fact that they were broke and living with a group of people. Unless you're suggesting living out in the woods, in which case, sure. You're right. I've heard there's some great career opportunities out in the catskills.
We have no idea what other people's lives are like and none of us should assume we do. Especially when you're going to be a dick about it.
Man, if we were to listen to you the majority of people are living edge case scenarios which makes it impossible for them to find a way to improve a situation they hate!
I met someone who moved to Albany to get an advanced degree and they hated it. They alluded to the fact that they were broke and living with a group of people.And I'm sure they would have hated New York and would have had to live with an even bigger group of people! It's also completely ridiculous to complain about having to live with others while you're in school and can't work a job full time.
The only dick I see here is you, I merely suggested that it's possible to live in places where you have access to everything THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE needs and to still have inexpensive housing. Not everyone needs to live in cities of a million or more but a lot of people will never consider moving out of them because they never do the math to realise that they might be better off doing it even if it means sacrificing some other things.
Yeah let's not pretend it isn't so much worse now though.
Yes, but it's worse for everybody. Millennials that have been renting for decades... How the hell are they going to get ahead enough to save up for a down payment!? Meanwhile, housing prices keep rising, outpacing even combined incomes. I realize some people are able to make it work, but I don't think it's the majority...
Oh absolutely, didn't mean for that to be a takeaway. These kids have got it way worse than we do, they were fucked right out of the gate even harder than we did. Just had my Gen X "they forgot about us" moment.
They'll never forget about us. Someone has to be responsible for things going out of business.
I lived alone for exactly one year before the apartment raised the rent by over %13. I had never been late or missed a payment. Luckily, my fiance, now wife, offered me to move in with her. But I would have had to move soon either way back then because I was being priced out quickly.
C'mon man, that's a little harsh, don't ya think? I get that you don't owe him anything but for real, not everyone's calling is equally rewarding financially, and you know this, and you know how fucked up it is.
Teachers deserve a wage that allows them to save and vacation every year.
In fact, we all do.
Fast food burger flippers do too. Society could afford it before, that we aren't doing it now is the result of policy decisions, not some invisible market moral correction voodoo. Workers at Dicks Burgers in Seattle make $21/hr + bene's and Dicks food is 1000x better than any fast food chain, and cheaper too. The money's there, it's just not being spread around.
Good for you achieving your own security, honestly, I mean that. But the scales being balanced is something we all need to work towards. Youre still working class, and right now the games still rigged to make sure you die broke. If we can't collectively work together to make sure the economy works for us all (cuz what's the point of a society then? It's just a fancy meat grinder otherwise), that paramedics make more than minimum wage. I'd like to live in a world where words matter. Where "essential" workers weren't just sacrificed on the alter of capitalism bc the beaurocratic class got furloughed and are actually treated essential.
Otherwise it's just a matter of time until another round of Reaganomics or fascists usurp power and either way your union gets busted. Ask the control tower what it's like when the government doesn't give a shit about the law, or precident. The law only matters if it's enforced.
I sure hope you vote for higher local taxes every election. Local elections really matter!
Vote for zoning reform too!
Well, that was a bit elitist.
Why are you so bitter, old man?
Let me translate for them:
Gonna blow your mind here. Both can be true! People can make it work with some effort and (even you) a ton of luck, but that doesn't also mean there's not A HUGE issue. I guarantee you every single person who is struggling day-to-day, and doesn't have some kind of reality-altering mental illness, wants to improve themselves. Most people either don't know how, or have tried and tried and tried and just not been fortunate to find their break. Instead of being met with "ah, man, that's rough bud. Let's see if we can figure out some resources to help" though, it's "get a job, don't do drugs, pull yourself up with those bootstraps you bought (no handouts here!) And fuckin grind til you get it you worthless maggot!" One of those approaches will actually lead to people doing better for themselves, and it's not the one you chose.
I can 100% guarantee you this is false. You are dramatically underestimating the number of people who are happy living with nothing if it means they don't have to try hard.
I'm literally in favor of paying these people money just to spend, and totally supporting their life of uselessness, but we need to accept that a shitload of these people exist or there cannot be any serious discussion about reforms.
Most poor people want to not be poor anymore. However millions of poor people are poor because they don't want to work at all, and only work as much as they have to in order to pay core bills.
You can't "save" those people because they don't want to be saved. Their quality of work sucks, too, so the best thing for everyone is just to have a gov program give them cash and let them contribute to the economy through spending.
See, I think those people are living their best lives already. There's no saving them because there's nothing to save them from. But I bet they're still improving their lives in other ways. Everyone wants better for themselves, we just don't always agree on what better IS.
I agree that there is nothing to save them from. They absolutely get to choose how they want to live their lives.
I simply disagree with the idea that they want to better themselves at all. That doesn't match my experience, having worked with thousands of people like this.
I wasn't really big on UBI until I really learned about this entire subclass. They're what sold me on the concept.
Again, I think they're still working on improving their situation in their own way. They don't WANT what we see as improvement. For us, improvement is comfort, money to live, a better home, etc. For some people, it could be achieving an altered brain state. Or reading a book. Or spending a day walking the streets. All of this would, in my view, be "trying to improve your situation" - they all make you more comfortable. They may not be long-term viable, or what the broader society may define as improvement, but that's kinda irrelevant.
I'm 39 and I do drugs a lot and I pretty much guarantee I'm more successful than you, given what you've said.
Maybe let's leave the drugs out of this discussion
I've also had a lot of bad experiences with friends and opioids. I feel you there for sure, and understand the comment a bit better.
Too bad you managed to make it to 40 without developing any sense of perspective
Thanks for feeding into the consumerist "all that matters is the money you make and the things you can buy" attitude that's doing so well for us all right now! We really need it!
Making a priority in life to earn more so that you can buy buy buy is pretty peak consumer. Your post made a pretty hefty value judgement at the person above (you didn't make enough money, so why do you deserve...). Peak consumerism is you have to earn so you can buy. The opposite of consumerism is recognizing that we're more than our bank accounts, and that people need shelter in order to survive, so let's make it accessible to everyone.
It's funny that calling out very real problems is "whining" to some people. There's absolutely some issues going on with housing prices and wages right now, but Mr(s) GotTheirs refuses to see it. You can be proactive and make progress in your own life while also acknowledging that the game is pretty rigged right now, and having a bit of humility that the GotTheirses at least partially got theirs through some luck.
Also, way to make some baseless assumptions about where I, or anyone, is trying to buy.
I think you might be very very late Gen X, TBH.
I think 79 is supposed to be the last year for gen X.
Yea 1980 is the cut off. And I was born in 81 and while I understand the gen x around me, my values align with working class millennials and gen z.
I've met so many narcissistic gen x that I'm default sus of anyone older than me. Some of the best people I've ever known are gen x. But unfortunately many many more of the worst are too.
Don't misunderstand, I let everyone introduce themselves to me through their own words and actionn. My priors might register but that shits stays in the cupboard, its not even on the back burner. Knowledge of stereotypes, or behaviours associating shit I don't like does not equal those things, and everyone comes blank slate.
It occurs to me now that that's prob a remnant of being raised on the meritocracy mythos. And meritocracy IS a myth, that shit isnt real in the slightest. You can't point at anything in your field of vision and say there, that's merit. It's an illusion, but one that feeds to our innate, internal sense of justice. And if you want to dive into an esoteric rabbit hole, Justice is a much more rewarding one.
Rawls for the win.
Lolololols. K bud. I think that's a a big leap you're taking but you do you.
You can take whatever you want from that, I'm not here to change yr mind.
It's sometimes 79, sometimes 80, but I just barely scraped by on the other side.
Definitive cutoffs for generations is stupid anyway. It depends way more on socioeconomic class and region than a single year. A millenial born in 81 has way more in common with an Xer from 80 than a millenial from 96.
No to derail anything, but the cusp of X and Millenials (77-83) is commonly referred to as a micro-generation in itself (Xennials).
Oh yeah, no question.