Mastodon and today's fediverse are unsafe by design and unsafe by default (privacy.thenexus.today)

submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by thenexusofprivacy@lemmy.sdf.org to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

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Even though millions of people left Twitter in 2023 – and millions more are ready to move as soon as there's a viable alternative – the fediverse isn't growing.1 One reason why: today's fediverse is unsafe by design and unsafe by default – especially for Black and Indigenous people, women of color, LGBTAIQ2S+ people2, Muslims, disabled people and other marginalized communities. ‌

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[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 18 points 11 months ago

The exact opposite is true. I am part of a very small minority and I made my own fediverse instances. Everyone who tries to go ableist/racist/misogynist or whathaveyou gets the boot. Very easy solution indeed.

The issue right now is how hard it is to set up an instance. In my opinion, every router on the world should have instances running (and tunneled to not dox themselves) so people are not dependent on big instances.

I would downvote this since it’s misleading af but it also sparks debate so I‘ll refrain.

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 11 months ago

In my opinion, every router on the world should have instances running (and tunneled to not dox themselves) so people are not dependent on big instances.

That would be a security and moderation nightmare. Moderating an instance is a tough job, and not everybody wants to take on that job.

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 11 months ago

That could be a moderation and security nightmare. But so could everything else you do.

Running a demilitarized zone to host lemmy for example does nothing for your home network since it is cut off from it. The important part is having automatic updates and smart interface to make configuration easy. I‘m not saying everyone should be doing it, I‘m saying everyone should be able to.

Moderation is no problem either. If only people in your home network are allowed to register, you have only them to police. And stuff from outside gets reported to one or multiple mods and deleted/blocked/defederated. Problem solved.

I don’t see a problem at all. Its still ways off atm but I can see it working.

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago

If only people in your home network are allowed to register

Well, that's one critical detail you didn't specify. But, that still doesn't account for the need for software updates, and hacking attempts. Also, why would anybody subscribe a community on a Lemmy instance with almost nobody on it?

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 11 months ago

Yes, i didn’t specify that because for me, it was obvious, sorry.

I‘m not sure you know how federation works. If one person subscribes to a one person instances community, that community gets federated. It is suddenly visible like it is on the big instance the one user came from.

It’s not important that your instance is small. You need good content.

[-] thenexusofprivacy@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 11 months ago

As I say in the article:

Despite these problems, many people on well-moderated instances have very positive experiences in today's fediverse. Especially for small-to-medium-size instances, for experienced moderators even Mastodon's tools can be good enough.

However, many instances aren't well-moderated. So many people have very negative experiences in today's fediverse.

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 2 points 11 months ago

Thats part of a fair assessment. As I said, the issue is people flocking to one place. It is human nature, not the fediverse that is fallible. We need better routines, not changes in the (particular) code.

[-] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 1 points 11 months ago

i think this will happen. the fediverse software field is literally in its infancy. i cant believe people are complaining rigfht now when so many products havent even reached 1.0, but are getting close.

and seeing these products from the inside, these are not products that are impossible to one-click install for non-tech folks.. its going to happen.

you will absolutely see 3rd parties spin up services to auto-deploy a functioning fediverse server much the way a wordpress site is created. but its not now... maybe soon.

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 11 months ago

Thank you. This is essentially what I thought but couldn’t phrase like you did. There are already companies who spin up and host on demand like a wordpress site. We‘re most of the way there. We just need peeps to refrain from spinning the story the opposite way. People will read it and some will believe it, losing out on the opportunity. The author of the article tried to explain to me that they did mention that the fediverse has come a long way (which is far short from what you and I are trying to say). This shows me that some people just cant judge the huge potential and the fact that human discipline or lack thereof is more of a problem than software atm.

[-] thenexusofprivacy@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 11 months ago

I didn't say the fediverse has come a long way. I said that many people on well-moderated instances have good experiences -- which has been true since 2017. In general though I'd say there was a brief period of rapid progress on this front in the early days of Mastodon in 2016/2017, and since then progress has been minimal. Lemmy for example has much weak moderation functionality than Mastodon. Akkoma, Bonfire, Hubzilla etc are better but have minimal adoption.

And @originallucifer Ipeople have been complaining about this for years -- it was an issue in 2011 with Diaspora, 2016 with Gnu social, 2017 with Mastodon, etc etc etc -- so it's not a matter of fediverse software as a whole being in its infancy. Even Lemmy's been around for almost four years at this point. It's just that the developers haven't prioritized this.

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 11 months ago

Okay, since you make me search for it, here:

As I say in the article: Despite these problems, many people on well-moderated instances have very positive experiences in today’s fediverse. Especially for small-to-medium-size instances, for experienced moderators even Mastodon’s tools can be good enough. However, many instances aren’t well-moderated. So many people have very negative experiences in today’s fediverse.

This is what I interpreted as „come a long way“. Make of it what you will.

And to your other claims: start asking yourself why the others are „better“ in your opninion but don’t have high adoption. The answer is pretty straight forward as you have been told by everyone else in this thread:

Mastodon and the fediverse works like a charm. People love it. But we need to stay focused to improve and steel against human nature.

Have a good one.