1254
Check on your male friends to see if they need help
(slrpnk.net)
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Maybe they already know that. Not to mention, self destructive views of masculinity, perpetuated primarily by MEN, is obviously the fault of women.
Besides, any woman who dared act like you need their help would almost certainly earn nothing but your scorn.
Take your foolish hot take and go home. Adults are talking.
Have you considered that your experiences in macho environments with guys could be primarily due to your appearance and demeanor? And that your experiences with women being unapproachable could be due to that same appearance and demeanor, as well as the institutionalized power dynamics and physical inequalities between men and women?
I'm not saying that it's easy to connect on a deep emotional level with platonic female friends (or romantic partners) as a man. I'm just saying that it's not necessarily because women are intentionally excluding you; like someone elsewhere in the thread said, many men have been victimized of the patriarchy, too.
The additional context is helpful, and I'm not trying to minimize your experiences. I'm just saying that an average guy who's played rugby and is a "typical man's man" can be inherently and unintentionally threatening to women, even if you personally have a friendly relationship with those women. Now some of this is likely cultural and country specific. I'm guessing from your reply times and mentioning rugby, uni, and camping that you're from Aus (or at least not the US). Most of my background is in the western US, so I understand that in your situation, things are probably totally different than my experiences. However, I have also spent lots of time in mixed friend groups, in traditional male-dominated areas (including rugby teams, interestingly), in very conservative spaces (as a very liberal person), and my experiences have been markedly different than yours.
The issue isn't necessarily you. Women have been trained through long and often traumatic personal histories that men, especially traditionally masculine men, are dangerous. Add to that the fact that when you start to open up about emotional issues, your behavior starts to deviate from "normal" guy behavior. Not a problem, except that now you're an average guy (which usually means significantly larger and stronger than an average woman) who is behaving in unexpected ways, which means you're unpredictable from the point of view of a woman.
None of her perception or fear is your fault, but it is literally a dangerous situation from the woman's point of view.
I don't necessarily disagree; I'm just trying to get you to think about whether that's because women don't care or because in nearly every culture, women need to be exceptionally cautious around men, especially men in emotional distress that might behave unpredictably. Even if they know you really well under normal circumstances, when you start to deviate from "normal" behavior, women need to be on their guard.
And that's where you lose me. Yes, "masculine environments" can be a great place to open up and get emotional support, but they can also reinforce harmful habits and act as an echo chamber (much like male-dominated internet discourse). I'm not saying that you should replace your male friends with female friends, or that you should stop talking to your male friends. I'm just saying that women can also provide that support in many circumstances (in my experience).
If you're consistently having bad experiences when you talk about emotional issues with women, then it may be the way you present the issues, the group dynamics, or the specific women that you choose to open up to. To say point blank that "The worst, most 'toxic masculinity' environments are better than the best women encounter" is where I disagree.
Lol. Yeah, maybe start by being open with women? Like it or not, conforming to what you think a woman expects is you being dishonest; when you only later open up, your own actions contradict the expectation that you previously set.
And, no, the entire Internet is not filled with this incel crap. Maybe the corners you frequent? Who knows.
Perpetuating the failures of our broken patriarchal system does not, in fact, justify it's existence. Furthermore, starting with this misogynistic crap is nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy. But you know what? You do you. At least the chances of you passing this ignorant hatred to your kids will be practically non-existent...
Oh, and uh, no, i have no reason to "learn" misogyny; I happen to be blessed with an amazing relationship specifically because I do NOT subscribe to this useless crap.
In short, you're wrong, and always will be. Feel free to whine about it, I don't care. I'm done with this discussion.
Didn't say they were perfect, and didn't say their actions are your fault. I did say YOUR actions are yours, and yours alone.
And, dude...that's the only thing you can control. Frankly, whether you are right or wrong in the views you've stated is irrelevant. All you're gonna accomplish is twisting yourself up inside over things you cannot change.
Most importantly, if you use other people's choices as an excuse to be a shit person, that just guarantees a pattern of lose-lose scenarios in your life. If you're trying to be miserable, then go for it. But if not, well, you can only control yourself; all other "power" is an illusion.
Another way to put it: the only problems that matter are the ones that are yours. Other people's problems or choices are just a distraction; that shit ain't gonna take you anywhere. At least not anywhere you want to be. If you're not satisfied with something in life, that's on you to figure out. Blame is useless - it's not a solution, it's a trap.
Uh, sure buddy. My partner is apparently imaginary, given that women who want to help men don't exist.
Anyway, choosing to harbor a prejudice against literally half of the human race does, in fact, make you a shit person.