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'No Possibility' of Gaza Cease-Fire, Biden Says as 500+ Former Staffers Demand One
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this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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Remember this blood is on the hands of anyone who voted for him and would vote for him again.
Genocide is Biden's legacy, hope it was worth saving "democracy".
Your downvotes are a witness against you and do not absolve you of your guilt.
Sorry to disappoint you, but if the president was Trump or any other Republican your government would have been even firmer behind Israel, so it is a choice between a bad and a worse president.
Whataboutism.
Nope. Cold hard truth to your fucking pathetic attempt at putting Netty's bloodthirst on Biden. You are beyond pathetic and frankly beyond stupid.
You're in denial.
So you think Trump would have been a better choice in this situation?
Leninists, don't think. It's anathema to them. That's how we get here. More anti west than anything else. Including socialist. Not that leninists were ever socialists.
Oh, is that what they are?
Why can’t they just stay in hexbear or lemmygrad with the rest of them? Much easier to filter
Well it's an assumption based on the originating TLD. But it's a safe assumption. Leninists/tankies will hypocritically condemn everything about America. And yet defend the exact same actions from other countries. Simply because they are not perceived as being West or western. Or having aided the West. So if you go there looking for logic, you're going to have a bad time. Unless you know that the hypocrisy is the core of their ideology.
Hell we would probably have deployed troops to Gaza and also to stand by in case of actions from Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, or Syria.
I certainly did not vote for Netanyahu.
But you voted for the guy who has been friends, worked with, and politically supported a Right-wing, ethnonationalist for over 40 years.
Biden did not cause the problems in Gaza, what are you on about? He's not the one in charge of Israel's actions. I am not a fan of him or a fan of sending aid to them, but this is just overdramatic.
On top of that, if people didn't vote for Biden then we would have Trump doing the same plus a bunch of other worse shit on top of that. We have two choices everytime. All people can do is vote for the lesser of two evils and that's what they did. If you wanna throw away your vote and help the objectively worse party win a presidential election again, that's on you, but most sensible people understand the choice we are forced to make thanks to our shitty system.
No, he's just the one supporting funding and arming Israel no matter what they do for decades and voting for him continued to enable Israel which inevitably led to this moment we're at now.
Whataboutism.
The choice to vote for Biden is linked to the choice to vote against Trump. They can not be separated from one another. To do so is to be disingenuous. We live in a democracy with a two party system. The Republican party is disproportionally represented by our electoral system and win with low voter turn out.
Since we can not separate the choice of voting for Biden and rejecting Trump, it is justified to bring up what Trump and the Republicans would do. If we want any chance of the US demanding a ceasefire then we need to reject the Republican party who will blindly support Israeli no mater what.
You got what you voted for then. A whopping 4-hour daily ceasefire.
Thanks for voting!
I also avoided another disastrous four years under Trump. I can live with the choice to vote for Biden because everyone in the world will be worse off under Trump. So, you're welcome.
Yeah, it could be worse for those maimed Palestinian kids. They could be dead, like those other Palestinian kids. Great trade.
Trump would have enabled and emboldened Israel's government to kill more Palestinians. That would have been a worse outcome. There is no such thing as rock bottom. It can always get worse.
So how many murdered Palestinians are an acceptable amount for you?
Certainly not 11 thousand. Why are more murdered Palestinians acceptable to you? Do you seriously think you're going to guilt trip people into getting more people killed?
That you apparently have the privilege to not be affected by the consequences of a Republican government doesn't invalidate the choices of those who would be, and voted accordingly.
We are all complicit in the same way we are all complicit for the war crimes committed by America in the Middle East: most of us did not have a choice in the matter whatsoever. All we can do is demand them to stop.
I'm not going to judge someone whose choices are "genocide" and "genocide even more, and even more local genocide" and picks the former.
On the contrary, you are displaying the tremendous privilege of living in the imperial core by being able to choose between "'genocide' and 'genocide even more, and even more local genocide'" and justify literally voluntarily voting to choose genocide in order to make yourself feel more comfortable within the imperial core.
True fascism taking power in the US means that I and the people around me will be murdered. But I don't feel the ethical apathy to be able to coldly prefer international genocide of others to keep myself safe at home all the while pretending like I saved the freedom for the entire world as children and whole families are being murdered. Biden is not the progressive savior all of you claimed he was, now at least you admit you chose "genocide"—which I do, and history will, judge harshly.
If you choose to vote for him again after this, you will consciously approve of genocide and be all the more guilty.
ok
Not voting for him again directly enables a guy that would do so much worse. Your stance lacks any understanding of the limits to our voting system.
How could it be worse than genocide for Palestinians?
Israel could genocide all 2.2 million people living in the Gaza Strip, all 3 million people living in the West Bank, the 1.6 million Palestinian people who live in Israel, the 5.5 million people living in Lebanon and get into a massive conflict in the Middle East where they end up using nuclear weapons.
Oh, and Trump could deport the 225 thousand Palestinian people living in the United States so Israel can genocide them too. Or just do it here in America. The Republicans will almost certainly streamline the death penalty and turn America's mass incarceration system into death camps.
More whataboutism. Trump isn't the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn't helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps ('migrant detention centers') already underway in the US.
But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.
Even if it isn't completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.
Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?
I have already refuted this argument so I'm just going to copy and paste my earlier response.
The collective punishment we are seeing now is the start of genocide. It is not the full genocide. The difference is millions of people. There is no credibility to an argument that refuses to acknowledge this difference.
No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.
You can't guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn't work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It's not equivalent.
Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?
Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?
Whataboutism. It's obnoxious when it isn't being used against your opponents, right?
I haven't supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?
Multiple people did. It's not whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
This statement is not based in reality. Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.
It's not a whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
It's a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It's just math. You can't guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.
You're delusional if you are not even willing to admit to yourself you voted for a fascist enabler because you wanted to feel safer.
That's a functional democracy worth defending at the cost of supporting genocide to you?
I mean, I do feel safer. You should too. I voted for Biden to stop the fascist take over. I didn't fully realize how much of a danger it was until Jan 6th. But it's become crystal clear to me since.
A democracy that is against genocide is better than a fascist dictatorship that actively pursues genocide at home and abroad. How is that even a question?
I don't feel safer because I've seen the slide towards fascism way before Trump and I know it will continue towards fascism because this slide includes the support and enabling of Democrats. There is no getting off this train by just electing Biden or the next assless Democrat who will just watch as fascists consolidate power.
It's really telling to me you still consider this a democracy that is against genocide. The President is literally funding and arming a genocide that is happening right now. And when the choice is between a President who supports genocide or a President who supports worse genocide, how is that not already a dictatorship? How is that a functioning democracy? That is why it is even a question.
Our decent into fascism started with Regan. Although it can be argued Republicans were trying even earlier with Nixon, they just screwed it up.
Democrats are controlled by neoliberals. But they are the most progress option we have and their party includes most of the progressive politicians that we have. Older politicians are finally aging out. Given enough time Democrats could be become a true progressive party and an effective deterrent against fascism. In the mean time, they are the only alternative.
I want the Democratic party to be more progressive, but I know voting for them is only way to stop a fascist takeover from happening.
Biden supports Israel's right to defend itself, not genocide. Netanyahu and his government chose to commit war crimes, not Biden. Biden has of course gotten this issue wrong. He should be demanding a ceasefire, among other things. Hopefully given enough pressure Biden will change his stance.
What's been weird about this argument is the commitment to equivocating two individuals who could not be more different. Biden is a neoliberal. Trump is a fascist. Everyone can spot the difference. No one can be fooled by such a thinly veiled deception unless they choose to be. Why are you letting yourself be fooled? The people who want our country to descend into fascism don't have our best interests at heart. Why go so willingly to our deaths at the hands of the Republicans? The Palestinians won't be better off with America as a fascist dictatorship. The only way to help the Palestinians, ourselves, or anyone else is with a democracy. Do you just want to guilt trip me or do you think it will somehow get better if we lose our democracy? edit: typo
All right, but this doesn't make you any different from Trump supporters that Democrats love to accuse of (mostly correctly) being fascists.
The problem with you feeling like this critique makes you defensive and want to just go for the easy option is that there is always another option that you could do but it seems like it's impossible for it to dawn upon you people. It's either genocide or worse genocide. No other choice. But it's also totally a functioning democracy worth defending, unlike those other bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes.
If you can't figure out another option or don't support it or think it's impossible because it's difficult so might as well not do it, then continue doing as you are but, yes, be aware there is blood on your hands and you are acting as a fascist supporter at best.