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Fry cooks
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this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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Antiwork
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Date Created: June 21, 2023
This community supports labor, with an aspiration for it to cease to be required to live our lives. Members of this community want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and/or want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
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Start here! Some of the more talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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There's no such thing as unskilled labor. I guarantee you that dude is better than you are at packing boxes. That's known as "skill"
If you can master it in a week it isn't a skill. You are redefining the word to make it so broad it is useless to make some ideological point. Also given what I see with Amazon boxes I doubt they can in fact pack better than I can.
That would require lasting a week at Amazon. Anyone who does that is indisputably skilled.
You are describing someone acquiring skills over the course of a week.
An assessment as you have given would depend on, as a basis, the general skills already prevalent within a target population.
Also, it is questionable that someone would not continue to develop skill through practicing a task longer than a week.
Your invocation of a judgment is essentially vacuous, as you have done with the word "master".
Jesus who are you trying to impress talking like that? Putting shit in a box is not skilled labor in the sense being a plumber or an accountant is. Just because I can't define the line exactly does not mean there is no line and pointing out that my reasoning isn't perfect doesn't make your reasoning correct.
It is unskilled labor because words are defined by consensus.
The line is imaginary, and division by any line is not particularly natural or useful.
What consensus are you imagining? I cannot recall being asked to offer an opinion for any consensus.
Who participated in constructing the consensus? What processes are generally available to challenge the entrenched consensus, or to direct the development of a new consensus?
Which groups have supported such a consensus more strongly than others?
Bullshit lines don't matter. You clearly act like it does. Do you eat anything randomly or do you have standards of hygiene and taste and nutrition?
Yeah you weren't consulted. Your whims don't outrule billions of people who refuse to be ordered to believe that 2 + 2 = 5.
Still goalposting moving, which is also unskilled labor.
You asserted a consensus had been formed.
Who participated in forming the consensus?
Did you participate? Are you benefiting from such a consensus? Would you be harmed by its being replaced?
Why is your tone so protective and forceful?
Skilled labor is something that you need outside training in order to do.
When someone is an 'unskilled worker,' it means they're only eligible for positions that train them.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just what people intend to mean when they say unskilled labor.
I have a master's degree, but I can honestly say working at Wendy's took just as much skill as what I do now. "People" who use terms like "unskilled labor" are part of the problem. There's no such thing as "unskilled labor." I'm agreeing with you.
I only have a bachelor's degree and can honestly say that there is no way I can do my job without it.
It is not about compensation. If the work is unskilled it is unskilled. How much it should be paid is a different discussion.
The people who invented the term invented it to justify low or no pay
Citation needed. Please tell me the name of the people, the date they invented the term, the justification they offered for the term, and private letters that indicate this conspiracy.
Take as much time as you need to provide these four pieces of data that would back up your claim.
This is not a genuine ask. You just don't want to acknowledge propaganda.
No work is deserving of such scorn and disrespect. All work requires effort and should be recognised as such.
Don't tell me what my intentions are you are not a mind reader. And don't imply something I didn't say.
Now how are citations going?
Packing boxes, unless you mean "outside training" to include walking and talking
It's unskilled in terms that any moderately competent person can do the job and become proficient at it quickly
My skilled job required tertiary education, plus about two years on the job for a person to become good at it
Nevertheless, a worker who has been trained is a worker who has become skilled.
A worker who has been trained on a job site is worker who has become skilled in work at the job site.
When one has spent half a day learning to pack boxes, then a week learning to do it quick enough, I'll grant they have acquired a skill. Probably not a transferable skill, but definitely a skill
It's still unskilled work
There is definitely such a thing as jobs that take lots of book learning and tests to get, and jobs anyone can get by applying for them. This semantic fight of "No such thing as unskilled labor" is just going to make people call it something new and politically correct, but it won't change reality.
It's not semantics, it's just refusing to use an inaccurate name. Just because anyone can get a job doesn't mean anyone can excel at it. Why are you suggesting we should all consent to the lie that unskilled labor exists?
Which are the people who are dominating culture and language, who carry the power to fulfill your prediction?
How do such distinctions and constructs originally emerge, and why do they remain entrenched?
Goalpost moving. You can't defend the redefining of the word so you attack the people who did define it.
Straw man attack.
Ad-hominem appeal to motive.
I have not advocated for a definition being imposed.
I have encouraged critical inquiry over the emergence and entrenchment of terms and constructs.
You don't know what those terms mean.
Go encourage the next person who makes the mistake of being polite to you.
You have not been in fact particularly kind or charitable.
Nevertheless, please advise me over which terms I misused.
I will accept any correction that can be validated.
Which is why everyone is an engineer these days. Guy with a mop? Sanitation engineer. Guy who sells stuff all day? Sales engineer. Help desk? No, systems engineer.
Title inflation isnt a big deal but it is silly.