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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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This is bullshit. Israel's response is completely disproportionate. 2000+ children are dead in Gaza.
I don't see where Obama said anything about things being proportionate, and I don't know what "proportionate" has to do with the fact that heinous acts have been taken by both sides.
There's no "both sides" to this anymore. Almost ten times the people have been killed by Israel with almost all of them being civilians.
How many times can you poke a bear before it decides it's done?
It's not an excuse. Israel's actions are absolutely disproportionate. I can argue either side, but that's exactly the point. Nobody's hands are clean. You don't have to condone Israel's actions to understand they were provoked.
There can never be peace without both sides admitting some fault. Two wrongs don't make a right. 9061 wrongs don't cancel out 1400 wrongs. That's not how any of this works.
What do you suggest Israel does? What do you suggest Palestinians in Gaza do? Until you think a little bit deeper, you can't just say dismissive, pithy things that only favor one side.
This isn't a sports team. You can't just pick a side and cheer for them no matter what.
I'm not advocating for Hamas, I'm advocating for the non-combatants who just want to send their kids to school.
As Martin Luther King famously said, "Violence is the language of the unheard."
Israel has killed ten times the people compared to who? Oh yeah, the other "side", who also has killed a bunch of civilians.
I'm not talking a pro-Hamas position. I'm taking a pro-child position. You don't give a fuck about people though.
Straight up overreaction to someone saying that the post was right, because it is.
It's self-referential meaning the western world is complicit in ALL the death there, both sides, because the Western allies of Israel have never forced them to the table to hammer out an actual solution.
Where are you sitting right now?
In a complete shock to everyone, the guy with the tankie name is all for the deaths of innocent civilians
At least they wear it like a badge of honor, making it easy to identify and ignore them
He's ready to hunt down the baby settlers and run them over with a T-90
We should give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's only advocating for the ~25% (2m people or so) of the Israeli civilian population that's not native born to be killed? Or maybe only the ~500k Israeli civilians who are >75 years old that were alive to see the 1948 war and creation of the state? Maybe some combination of the two? Surely a tankie can't be advocating for the genocide of an entire nation?
Edit: Oh he messaged me instead of replying? Not sure if that was on accident but:
No no, you misunderstand me, when I say "ignore" I only mean disregard your opinions, there's no way I'd miss out on pointing and laughing with everyone else at the genocidal tankies, we have to make sure nobody around here thinks it's an appropriate opinion to have
both hamas and the israeli government want war not peace you can't reason with that
You seem to not understand what a proportionate response in war is. Israel's goal is extermination of the terrorist threat in Gaza, their actions are proportional for those goals. Not lost in the calculation is the terrorists saying they intend on continuing their terror attacks on civilians, making a ceasefire all but impossible to institute.
The question of whether or not it's humane or ethical is a different question that should be debated.
Where did I justify anything? I'm pointing out your ignorance is all.
Proportional in the context you're using it doesn't mean what you think it does.
You're probably one of those people who says things like genocide when the population has doubled since 1950, or apartheid when Arabs serve in the IDF, sit as judges in the courts and hold seats in the parliament.
Tensions are high, spreading disinformation like you are doing is a problem that needs to be called out. Notice I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming you're just ignorant and not doing this intentionally.
None of what I've said justifies the actions of anyone either. I'm simply pointing out that accuracy is important and you made a mistake.
You know that they're are streets in Jerusalem that Palestinians are not even allowed to walk down, right? It's an apartheid state.
Are those Palestinians is really citizens? There are 2 million Arab Israelis who have access to Israeli society. There are 2 million gazans who aren't Israeli citizens who don't want to be Israeli citizens. Therefore, they do not have the same rights as Israeli citizens.
They don't want to be Israeli because the Israel's are an illegal occupying force that's taking over their land.
Bro, you're cherry picking your information and spreading colonial propaganda.
What is being cherry picked in @S_204's post?
Watch this My life as a Palestinian fighter - YouTube with a little bit critical of an eye and tell me what you think. This is supposed to be in favor of Palestinians, but what I get out of it is that the mother is proud of the son fighting and dying. What I get out of this is that many Gazans want the fighting to continue, but only when it's their people fighting Israel. Who do you think put out this video? Do you think Israel is behind it? Or do you think it's honestly made in favor of Palestine? What's the purpose of this video and who made it?
How do you propose to kill everyone who is Hamas without killing any civilians?
In war, civilians always die. That's just reality.
Callous and disgusting that you'd even try to justify that.
Terrorists consider civilian casualties to be a scorecard. Hamas benefits when there's Israeli civilian casualties. Hamas also benefits when there's Palestinian civilian casualties.
That's the whole point of taking hostages isn't it? To force Israel into a ground campaign which will cause Palestinian civilian casualties.
The military forces of civilized nations don't consider civilian casualties to be a victory no matter which side it's on. They have an objective and need to achieve that objective while minimizing civilian casualties. The objective of the IDF is to free the hostages. They will make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. But they must achieve that objective even while know civilian causalities are a certainty even when they make an to keep those casualties to a minimum.
This is the nature of war. And this is a war Hamas started. And remember there could be significantly fewer casualties (and a humanitarian ceasefire) if Hamas released the hostages.
But they won't do that because their objective is to maximize the number of Palestinian casualties because many people look at those casualties and become angry and want to support them.
Netanyahu will lose power because of 1400 Israeli deaths. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered to be a failure by Israelis.
Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered a success by Hamas. They are psychopaths that know how people react to these numbers.
Constantly bombs refugee camps, schools, and hospitals This is just war, bro. Yeah we have the 4th most sophisticated and accurate military on earth but we just can't help hitting civilians who just happen to be a minority in their own land...
Dude, the logical hoops you'll jump through to justify a genocide is extremely concerning.
Holocaust scholars all over the world have even condemned the bloodshed.
This isn't the cost of war. It's punishment. It's imperialism.
An ethnostate is one pillar of Fascism, so yeah.
I WILL NOT BE SILENCED - (unless mods nuke my comments)
You're username is a 6/10, not a nearly as good as SpaceCowboy
When a legitimate target is hiding among civilians, there are two possible responses:
No "buts". Like it or not, defend it or not, that's what non-civilized nations do.
I like your username
Yep, genocide not cool Israel. The future will not be kind to you.
But only because they are the ones in power. If the positions of power were reversed, it'd be pretty much the same thing, except Hamas would be the one performing the apartheid and the genocide.
Bullshit made up comment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter