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Thousands of Jewish Americans and Allies Demand Cease-Fire in Gaza
(www.commondreams.org)
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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2023
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politics
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Did you not read the UN Convention on Genocide? You know, the things Jewish people said they'd never forget?
Here's a PDF it's only like 4 pages: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
Whether or not it's true if the population is increasing in spite of all of these things isn't relevant. What's relevant is that Israel is attempting several of them (only need 1 for it to be genocide), and they have been for several decades.
Let me quote some portions of the Hamas Covenant to you, and you tell me if you can find anything this insane in Israeli founding documents. Like it or not, Hamas has clearly stated its opposition to peace and its genocidal intent.
Intent is the difference.
I'm not assuming anything, I'm explaining that intent matters when considering whether genocide is happening. Hamas clearly has intent, Israel on the other hand? I'm willing to be convinced of course; certainly some officials have made genocidal statements, but I'm not aware of the official policy or stated aims of Israel being specifically genocidal the way Hamas is. Apartheid? Absolutely, and that's bad enough.
Israel has attempted peace multiple times; I respect Arafat & the PLO for compromising and it's a shame what happened with that process. Hamas considers these efforts a "contradiction to its principles" and a "waste of time".
You may be right about Netanyahu & Likud, anyway, and I'm certainly not saying the Palestinians don't have every right to resist. I expect Israel's stated aim, to destroy Hamas, is an honest one. I expect Gaza will be returned to the Palestinians when that goal is achieved, because again, I don't see Israel as intentionally genocidal. I can't say I'm not concerned that my expectations won't be met, though.
What would you have Israel do? Not defend itself? Because by doing so according to your logic Israel is committing genocide then.
If Hamas didn’t keep attacking Israel and instead focused on improving the lives for residents in Gaza then Israel would not attack them.
Also based on that link you cited and your logic palestinians are committing genocide against the Israelis
False dichotomy. There are more options than "do nothing" and "force the evacuation of an entire populated area before bombing the entire region to the stone age". It doesn't take a political genius to see that.
Ok what are the options then? Let’s hear them in your view
The onus is not on this random internet commenter to produce an alternative. Can you really not think of one thing Israel could do that doesn't involve glassing what's left of a country?
Let’s see what they propose. Or you for that matter?
If Al qaeda was based in Canada and constantly attacking New York what would the U.S. have done post 9/11? Just leave them alone?
The truth is there no good option here. Elimination of Hamas is the only option and it will be bloody for both sides, partially due to Hamas use of Palestinian citizens as human shields. Hopefully after Hamas is removed from power Palestinians can elect leaders who don’t call for the complete annihilation of Israel and Israelis can elect moderates who are open to negotiations as well.
Unless you are among those who think Israel should be dissolved in which case you are not actually interested in a peaceful solution for all sides.
Even if "eliminate Hamas" is the response, forcing the entire population out and bombing the whole fucking place is not the only way.
Doubly so, because if you kill and/or displace hundreds of thousands of civilians, how many of those do you think will remain civilians, and how many will subsequently be bolstering the numbers of Hamas?
What is the other option here other than Israel surrendering to Hamas?
So you’re not interested in a solution that is realistic (ie allows the state of Israel to remain). Guess you don’t actually want peace.
What you are calling for is a fantasy. The second Israelis did that they would be wiped out.
I live in reality - and we all need to - if we want this situation to finally come to a peaceful conclusion.
By the way I agree with you regarding the settlements. They are a provocation and moderate Israelis need to stop them and hopefully will once Netanyahu and his rightwing cronies are thrown out of office.
Hamas literally is launching rockets from hospitals, schools, etc.
“Throw bombs”
More like launch missles into civilian areas intentionally. You’re really understating the situation.
Also by the way your solution is to just let Hamas continue intentionally attacking civilian targets? What country on the planet would allow their neighbor to do that?
You still didn’t answer my question. What is the other option here for Israel? Hamas backed them into a corner by launching missles from hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.
Hamas wants Palestinians to be killed more than anyone else in this situation. They’re basically daring Israel to attack civilian areas. They are trying to elicit a reaction exactly like the one you are exhibiting. Meanwhile Iran is laughing as they use Palestinians as cannon fodder in order to get people pissed at Israel and the west.
What other option is there for Israel other than just surrendering to Hamas?
Nice pivot. Didn't work, but good try.
What a fucking joke. I guess just pretend you don't know how power dynamics work.
I’m genuinely curious. What would you have Israel do in response to last weeks attacks?
Well they could start doing the thing that would've prevented the attack in the first place, treat Palestinians like human beings. The main reason Hamas is in power is because Israel treats Palestinians like subhumans. Hamas wouldn't be a thing if Israel and Palestine made peace and found a way to co-exist.
Give the land back.
Power dynamics?
Is this some fucking joke to you? You think this is a mother fucking Video game?
This is war. It's not supposed to be fair. It's no more fair than when America steam rolled Iraq or Afghanistan. No more fair than when the Hamas terrorists with guns pulled those kids out of bed and shot them last week.
Hamas are terrorists. They need to be destroyed, that's why the US pulled its forces into the region. If you think that's for anything other reason than to ensure this threat is eliminated, you're fucking crazy.
War sucks. Hamas is going to be eliminated. The sooner they stop with the human shields, the better for the people of Gaza.
Dumbest shit I've ever seen.
Yes, I'm making up the concept of power dynamics. I took them from video games. Unbelievable.
Defend itself against what? It, the UK, and the US started it and refused to relent. Yeah I expect Israel to give the illegal settlements back entirely. They intentionally encouraged too many people to move in in order to justify illegal expansion. So yeah send them back, pay the immigrants for Israel's fraud and con, and give the Palestinian's their land back.
You steal someone's car, and you make it right by giving it back and covering any damages. Just because Israel stole a really big "car" doesn't change how right and wrong works. You give it back and apologize whether you're a 3 year old or Netanyahu.