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Vaccine research vs. anti-vax research
(lemmy.sdf.org)
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this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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Airplanes, trains, boats, gov employees, public service workers, private corp employees (based on gov advice - mostly office workers and sports players), all forms of healthcare workers, schools, immigrants, and military to name a few.
But most of it has been repealed now thankfully
Wasn't mandated enough places obviously. Your dipshit view of what freedom is gives you zero right to potentially kill people with your fucked up negligence and I'm really fucking tired of morons arguing this dumbfuckery
Why do you think all of those places repealed their mandates?
Was it because not having the vaccine killed people?
Who "repealed" anything? Laws are repealed. This was never law. Some organizations stopped requiring it because most people aren't this type of moron and just got the fucking vaccine, and people like you made it too difficult to continue to be required. So yeah, you sort of got your moronic wish. People of course died for it but that's their problem right?
If the government mandates something, it has the same weight as a law.
Those orgs that don't require it anymore, didn't drop it because "most people aren't this type of moron and just got the fucking vaccine"
It was because we had more data, and you have to weigh the risks.
It's still hard to say what the long term effects of either vaxxed or un-vaxxed will be
No it doesn't. I don't think this happened at all except with govt as an employer. You morons could just get a new job.
It's actually very easy to say. The vaccine complication rate is near zero and not a single harebrained theory you idiots had has panned out. Try again
Lol, you need time to know long term effects, there still hasn't been enough of that yet.
And yes, a mandate has as much weight as a law, it just depends who issued it. The only really difference in mandate vs law is how it's initiated, but here, they hold the same weight.
I won't be deleting lemmy :)
You ignore that not a single person was mandated to get a vaccine in a scenario where they had no choice.
Also you idiot, we know the long term effects of death but that didn't stop you from pretending a hypothetical issue born of a bullshit theory should take precedence.
Thanks for the block request btw
The choice was lose your income, travel no where, and gather with zero loved ones - or take this vaccine we just came out with, but havent finished testing lol.
It's kind of funny that I've been pretty civil despite all the name calling, and you're the one blocking me.
I'm not in the US - but also thank you for responding without malice.
Losing income is a big deal, especially with dependants, but that aside - you're right about your point of possibly endangering others.
However If the vaccine fully protected you (as it was advertised at first) this wouldn't be the case - anyone who was vaxxed would've been immune. Also having natural immunity is just as good, if not better - but instead of doing any sort of antibody testing, we stuck with "be vaccinated or lose your job". Wouldn't anti body testing instead of mandates be the pinnacle of making sure those around you are safe? Especially at a time when we didn't know the risks or effectiveness of the vaccine.
No company or government agency claimed the vaccine fully protected anyone, the efficacy results were published long before the vaccines were made available to the public. Natural immunity isn't better at all, it's as good in some cases, but less consistently so across the board and hybrid immunity was better than either. No, antibody testing would be unnecessary overkill vs just vaccinating everyone for this reason.
How long after a pandemic starts should a vaccine be released? Give me a number please.
Especially if we're going to use a tech in a vaccine that we've never used on large amounts of people before
Ok, so you have no problem with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine that was not based on mRNA, right?
Lol you mean the one they took off of the shelves because of blood clots? From a lack of testing?
I said "especially with new tech". Still need to test the waters with the old one clearly.
You mean the handful of blood clots vs. the millions successfully vaccinated?
Please name a vaccine with zero side effects.
There obviously isn't one, that's part of weighing the risks - which we didn't have enough time or data to do for covid and it's vaccines. Part of the whole informed consent thing.
Thankfully we can all now choose, and see better data
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/natural-immunity-protective-covid-vaccine-severe-illness-rcna71027
You know you have to get COVID to have natural immunity, right? So what should we do, have COVID parties like parents used to have chicken pox parties for their kids?
You're going to get covid. Vaccine or not.
Get the vaccine if you're elderly or have underlying risks, otherwise doing 3 shots a year to stay up to date doesn't look very beneficial anymore.
We didn't know how ineffective the vaccine was in the beginning, but our leaders still said things like "This will protect you. Fully. Everyone needs to have it". I'll provide links if you didn't see any of that going on.
It was a lot more political than it was scientific, which is a huge red flag.
For a pandemic with a really high survival rate? Like a 99% survival rate?
5-10 years makes sense to me
If the survival rate was different, my answers here would be different
So death is the only metric? Long COVID isn't a metric? Just missing two weeks of work isn't a metric? Because we don't get flu vaccines because we're worried about dying from the flu, we get them because we want to avoid getting the flu and avoid the worst symptoms if we do. And that's even true of other vaccines. The polio vaccine wasn't about stopping death, it was about stopping the crippling effects of polio. Sort of similar to the crippling effects of COVID.
The worst symptoms are death. I see your point about extending the metrics, and maybe I should consider more than just dying, but I think it's a strong factor in why this whole thing seems over blown in the way mandates and restrictions came.
For polio, it was about stopping death, paralysis is a death sentence in most places in the world.
Delete your Lemmy account. Go back to reddit and Facebook where this idiocy is at home
It is stupid as fuck to worry about the "long term effects" of a vaccine but not the disease it's vaccinating against.
No it's not. Here's an instance where vaccines helped spread polio:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus
The mRNA vaccines were different than this though (not using a live virus), but mRNA is a newer method that hasn't had the same level of testing as other vaccines. Probably good to take some precautions, especially when the virus in question (covid) has a 99% survival rate
Do you know what the long-term effects of COVID are? Ever heard of long COVID?
Yes, I've heard of long covid. But it might as well be named "mid term COVID" as it applies typically applies to anyone who continues to see symptoms past the 3-8 month mark (this varies from study to study).
The vaccine doesn't prevent this either though, but does seem reduce the likelihood, slightly.
We still don't know what's going to happen in the next 5+ years to come (with covid or the vax). These things can take a while to manifest sometimes, which is partly why vaccine testing is usually so extensively long, like 5-10 years (just not in this case for some reason).
If you knew anything, you'd know this isn't the reason why getting vaccine approval takes so long. It takes so long because there's a mountain of bureaucrats, lawyers, researchers, and money required to get stuff moving along. Vaccines are pretty low the totem pole for companies and the government to give a shit about, since they're usually about prevention and not treatment. Companies and the government can't throw everything at a vaccine to approve. The only reason the covid vaccine was streamlined was because, you guessed it, we were and are in a global pandemic. Nothing about the approval of vaccines was abnormal, it still took nearly 2.5 years.
I wouldn't say they're "low on the totem pole", they're supposed to be one of the most strictly regulated medical products. In part because vaccine producers can't be held liable for anything - so extensive testing and review is needed.
That industry isn't just peanuts either, it's one of the largest industries in the world.
2.5 years is abnormal (and testing hadn't finished when everything started becoming mandated). The global population was the test lol.
Google how long all the other vaccines we have took to get approval, ~10 years seems pretty normal, maybe not in your country though. Hopefully it never comes to this again
It's so funny how you guys operate. Even when confronted, you just cherry-pick what's being said and strip away the context to push the exact same anti-science and anti-truth positions that were just given retorts. I don't know if it's ignorance or wilful deceit, but either way, people like you are a net negative to humanity.
Then be more accurate. Provide some sources for the misinformation you're spouting.
The vaccine doesn't hang out in your body, so there's no way that there's going to be effects 5+ years later. Or even 5 months later. I forget the exact amount of time, but it's out of your body in a very short time...like 24-48 hours.
I truly hope you're right!
Because idiots like you spread misinformation to the point people were being assaulted over it AND simply wearing face masks
Not having the vaccine killed and continues to kill people. Not getting the vaccine is fucking stupid
Having recovered from COVID while following quarantine procedures is just as good as having the vax - if not better. No?
No.
Having it can lead to long term damage (lungs, heart, etc.) even if you survive and mostly recover.
Early on they were able to show that people who got the 2 dose initial vaccine showed protection longer than those that were sick with COVID. Again, without the risk of long term organ/system damage.
I'd like to say thank you for being civil and having an actual discussion lol.
Here's a study that came out in Feb 2023 looking at vaccinated protection vs natural immunity -
Article: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/natural-immunity-protective-covid-vaccine-severe-illness-rcna71027
Study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)02465-5/fulltext
The article does promote taking the vaccine as the safer route - which is agreeable if you have co-morbidities. But long term effects of either will only be shown over time, we still need more of that
Moron's take right there
Can you elaborate?
I'm just not sure how we can know long term effects without creating a time machine to go forward
Vaccines have existed for how long?
MRNA vaccines are also not new.
Changing which disease is treated for doesn't magically change the vaccine into something that'll hurt us down the line.
This is really basic vaccine knowledge, you should have learned this in school
They're not new? Could you show me what other human vaccines we've made and deployed that use this tech?
Changing the disease it's targeting changes the structures of the proteins that are created from the mRNA vaccine, and will change how your body responds to it (with each body reacting a bit differently) - so each time will warrant testing (ideally) before release to the public, especially before mandates are imposed
I'll take the time to look at these after work, but I wanted to briefly chime in.
Co-morbidities or not, we have been aware since the beginning (well before the vaccines were available) that some people continued to have lingering symptoms and suffered other types of damage due to having contracted the virus. For example - an athletic coworker in her early 40s contracted it August 2020, and to this day continues to have heart problems. I work in hospice, and while the numbers are lower than they were over the last few years, we still regularly get patients entering hospice due to damage from COVID.
I have yet to come across a patient who needed hospice services due to a vaccine.
If I'm going to take a "risk" on anything, it'll be the vaccine.
Just out of curiosity, are the people who're entering your hospice from covid vaccinated against it too? It's not easy to discern if it's the virus or the vax if they've had both - and the reporting on it seems shoddy. It's possible that both can cause issues as well.
Anecdotally, regarding your coworker, I've found it around me too that it's some of the most athletic people had the worst time with COVID (not counting elderly or people with co-morbidities). For the people I know personally, they aren't sure if it was from COVID or the vaccine though, as they'd been vaxxed about a month prior to contracting COVID so it's hard to tell. That also speaks a bit to as to how well the vaccine worked lol.
Let me know what you think of that study when you get some time
NO.
In fact you might suffer long COVID symptom which vaccinated people that avoided covid don't have to .