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submitted 1 year ago by Fisch@lemmy.ml to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

For open source messengers, you can check whether they actually encrypt your messages and whether the server has access to your encryption keys but what about WhatsApp? Since it's not open source, you can't be sure that the encryption keys aren't sent to the server, right? Has there been a case where a government was able to access WhatsApp chats without reading them from the phone itself?

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[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I feel like this needs some sort of citation for it. I know some suspect the claims about E2EE are bogus but I haven't seen actual proof about it.

[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 1 points 1 year ago

It's not enough to have it be E2E-encrypted; E2E means nothing if the decryption keys are not stored locally.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago
[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 1 points 1 year ago
[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As far as I know the private keys are kept on the device and the app generates them. That's how Signal protocol works afaik. Do you have something to show that it's not the case for WhatsApp since stuff I searched for seemed to claim that's the case.

[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 1 points 1 year ago

So, I looked it up and according to the official Whatsapp FAQ, the keys are indeed stored locally.

WhatsApp has no ability to see the content of messages or listen to calls that are end-to-end encrypted. That’s because the encryption and decryption of messages sent and received on WhatsApp occurs entirely on your device. Before a message ever leaves your device, it's secured with a cryptographic lock, and only the recipient has the keys. In addition, the keys change with every single message that's sent.

Still, considering WhatsApp is owned by Facebook, I wouldn't trust them. Their whole business model has always been about harvesting as much data as they can. I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a total lie.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

For sure they're not trustworthy and can't really verify either since it's proprietary app. But I mean more that unless they've specifically made some changes, the keys are stored locally. And afaik we don't really know of cases proving that they are lying about that.

[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fair enough, I guess. Still, in my honest opinion, it's not worth it. They've already long since betrayed my trust, so they could say the sky is blue and I still wouldn't trust them. Lol.

[-] megopie 1 points 1 year ago

I mean, they definitely use end to end encryption. The problem is that they’ve done nothing would convince people they’re not harvesting the content of the messages in the app before it’s encrypted and sent. And there is a long history of them handing over decrypted information to law enforcement upon request, without warrant.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

The problem is that they’ve done nothing would convince people they’re not harvesting the content of the messages in the app before it’s encrypted and sent.

I assumed it was a more solid case than just that it's technically possible. I was hoping for cases where we know they've done it.

And there is a long history of them handing over decrypted information to law enforcement upon request, without warrant.

Does that include message content though? That's sorta the crux of what we're talking about. Metadata for sure, but whether we know that they can read our message content, that's afaik still unclear.

[-] megopie 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes, what’s app messaging specifically has a long history under Facebook of giving away user data like candy to anyone who wants it, including the content of private messages. It’s been shown repeatedly and is common knowledge yet they still have yet to do anything to prevent it. this here is a declassified internal document from the FBI highlighting what they have access to and what level of legal request they need for what. Notably message content requires no legal request to access

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I think that photo goes against the claim that WhatsApp can decrypt or otherwise easily get access to message content

Message content: Limited

if target is using iPhone and iCloud backups enabled, iCloud returns may contain WhatsApp data, to include message content

Also was that before the full encryption of the backups? Someone else posted a study about their backup encryption where they concluded that it at least seemed secure (with the caveat of it being a proprietary app).

this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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