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Israeli strikes flatten buildings, mosques in Gaza
(www.aljazeera.com)
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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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The Palestinians probably shouldn't have started a war and then let combatants hide behind civilians.
Palestinians didn’t start this war. Not even close. Saying this shows a pretty clear ignorance of the history of Israel and Palestine.
They attacked a fucking music festival and slaughtered civilians. That's a beginning.
That is horrific, inexcusable, and unjustifiable, but it is not a beginning.
https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/charts/
Yes, it is. Last week, Gaza was at peace. They planned and executed this attack.
Oh, right. Yes, I forgot that peace was achieved between Israel and Hamas until Saturday.
Last week, they weren't shooting each other. This week, Hamas unilaterally decided to end that by murdering hundreds of civilians.
https://www.ochaopt.org/poc/5-18-september-2023
Not true. Gaza was not "at peace".
Yes, they were.
Only according to Israel.
According to objective, basic reality.
Not by a long shot.
How many more innocent people have to die before you admit reality is real?
Explain this then
https://www.ochaopt.org/poc/5-18-september-2023
Doesn't sound like open warfare.
You’re an idiot. Gaza is an open air prison
After almost a century of the people they support relentlessly trying to make a genocide happen, I am at a loss as to what alternative solution you have in mind. But I'd love to hear it.
Oh that easy. Make Germany Israel since you know Germany can be blamed for what happened to them. Israel wants a state? Fine but not Palestine they had nothing to do with ww2
If you can get all of the Jews of Israel to voluntarily leave to colonize some vacant land in Alaska or whatever, knock yourself out.
England did it once they can do it again 😚
So, you want ethnic cleansing, by force, of the Jews
Idk how many more settlers will Israel slaughter before Hamas retaliates again? U tell me.
It's up to Hamas.
Wrong.
Dude the Palestinian-Israeli conflict didn’t begin last week….
This war did. Last week, Gaza was at peace.
No it wasn’t. Last week it was under Israeli occupation and blockade. That is not peace
Blockade, yes, for obvious reasons. But Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005.
Dude just… no https://www.ochaopt.org/poc/5-18-september-2023
This war is a part of a almost century long conflict. You cannot ignore that.
Lmfao. Tell me u have no clue without telling me you have no clue.
No it was not. Has not been since 1948.
There's been a series of wars, generally started by Arabs, since 1948. But last week, there wasn't a war.
Simply wrong on all accounts. Wow.
Western media is full of it. Check a news aggregate and put US as your country and you'll see news media orgs across the map today talking about the evils of hammas and how the poor isrealutes were attacked. Conservative and liberal news alike sticking their noses so far up Israel's grundle without shame or remorse.
They didn't huh? Ignorant huh? So wait, when the area was partitioned by the British, and the Zionists said "yep, we'll take it." But the Palestinians said no, because all these surrounding countries have said they'll drive all the Jews in the sea to kill them all, and those countries did attempt that, twice, and failed, and then in all of the peace talks, the Palestinians said no to any plan that required Israel also be recognized as a state, that was Israel starting it? Stfu. You know nothing. Go look up the three days war and the Yom kippur war. See why the "disputed" territories are under Israeli control. Go read about which side walked out on the peace talks. Or read about the many years those territories were controlled by Egypt and Jordan and could have easily been formed as independent countries then by Jordan and Egypt. But they wouldn't permit it.
The truth is, Israel has had to fight for survival from the moment of its inception.
Then, ask yourself what would happen if Mexico fired rockets into California at civilians on a regular basis. Or if Albania fired rockets into Italy or Greece.
And let us not ignore that Gaza is the territory that Israel demobilized from and left entirely in the hands of the Palestinian people. And look at how that worked out.
If someone walked into your house, forced you into your bathroom, said that they owned the rest of the house now, would you be willing to go to peace talks if it means that they get to own half your house? Think about that for a second. Who do you think started the war in this context? Why exactly do you think that Israel had to keep fighting for its survival?
Just because Israel won a few wars, and is backed by other western imperialistic countries doesn’t mean they are right.
Gaza is under a barricade from both land and sea. Many don’t have access to clean water, a home or food. Meanwhile Israel is far more technologically advanced, and consistently has arms, and money being sent from western allies. The state of Gaza is 100% the fault of the Israeli occupation.
Perhaps if the government of Gaza spent more on food and water than rockets and guns then the people would have more of it. They have the money to pay families of suicide bombers. They have money for arms. Yet it is Israel who is at fault. Israel withdraw from Gaza in an offering of peace and all Gaza did was become worse. And they didn't storm an inhabited place. Look at the actual history of that region.
Hell even the al aqsa mosque that is "the third holiest site" was ignored and not maintained. Israel exist. It has a right to exist. Until Hamas and the PLO are willing to agree to that, their can be no peace. They are the ones who refused to accept any agreement that required them to accept Israel as a nation.
Gaza is blockaded by air,and abs sea. It’s an open air prison. Most don’t have water, electricity, access to healthcare, etc. there is no government because Israel won’t let them organize. Hamas and other terrorist organizations don’t represent all Palestinians. You don’t know the history of the region, you’re a dumbass who thinks that they are a geopolitical expert.
The British had no authority to decide who gets to rule where. It's kind of the root of most of the problems around the middle east. "The British said" isn't a justification for anything.
They literally did have the right. Just because you don't like the way the world works didn't make it not work that way.
Conquerors and colonizers (the British, but it applies to Israel as well) do not have inherent right to rule. No one voted for them to make decisions. Having the power to dominate is not the same thing as having the right to decide what the people they oppress must accept.
This must be a neat little world you live in where world history doesn't exist and norms of a time period weren't real and didn't matter. Hell, by your method of accounting, I suppose Europe needs to import about 330 million Americans.
I'm not supporting imperialism. It was an awful thing. The genocide of the natives in the Americas was absolutely despicable. The impact around the world was by and large awful for those being colonized. But Israelis are not colonizers in Israel. They have had a population there even under Muslim rule.
To actually want to find a peaceful resolution, you must start with an understanding of how the world actually works.
Country borders have been built. Having might did allow you to expand your empire since time immemorial. And the modern form of Israel came from fighting and diplomacy with the British, who had conquered that land. Israel legally established itself with firm borders just as the Palestinians were offered.
That is the real world. And that is the situation you must work with. Whether you think it is fair or not.
And whether or not you like it, both the west bank and Gaza (and much more) were ceded to Israel by the countries controlling those territories prior to the war. And Israel has also been willing to make land for peace agreements as it did with Egypt and the Sinai peninsula. Jordan and Egypt withdrew their sovereignty. Up until that time they could have also made Palestine an independent state. They didn't.
With all of that being said, after many years of war of war and fighting and disagreements, Israel has become less diplomatic. Especially after the total demobilization of Gaza. Them leaving Gaza is what allowed this current attack to happen.
And the harsh truth is that the Palestinians could have a country rather quickly, but it would just be less than what they demand and want. They are in a weak bargaining position. Made weaker by the repeated attacks. But for all intents and purposes, Gaza has been a sovereign territory for 18 years. And they have done nothing in the name of peace.
It is long, complicated, and difficult. And I support the Palestinians getting their own sovereignty and nation. I support land swaps. But I also acknowledge the reality of the situation requires that the Palestinians give up on some things they have sworn to not give up on. Israel has not kept Muslims from visiting their holy sites, the way Jews were denied in spite of the agreements Jordan made with the UN. In fact, it was Jordanian(I believe) troops that would not allow me to visit inside the temple mount, because I'm not a Muslim.
Negotiations require flexibility. And while Israel has shown that flexibility with land swaps in exchange for the settlements, the other side doesn't even want to be required to acknowledge Israel as having a right to exist. Border disputes happen all the time and are worked out in different ways, but very often one side can end up with less than they want. But isn't that worth taking over the current situation?
Look up Martín Garcia island. Or the Andes boundaries. The Sverdrup islands. Hanish islands. The Baltic sea with Poland and Denmark.
LOL. Ain't no one reading that. Not in a "I read it, but don't want to work on a response" way, but "I don't think any opinions you've expressed thus far warrant reading a wall of text about 'how the world really works'".
Real funny way to say you would prefer to not see the other sides' thoughts.
So I'll make this one short. You said
The thing is, there is no god (or natural law of the universe) given set in stone right to rule. But the de facto and often de jure truth is that historically they do. Human has functioned as such since the time when multiple species of humans existed.
Ok but in this case you're wrong. Go read the 1948 plan. They ASKED both parties to voluntarily make 2 states. Jews said of course Arabs said no this is our land and always has been and these are our enemies.
Somehow you think that in the 20th century it's ok for a country to
A have a colony and B dictate things to that colony against its will.
Just because it has the force to. Astounding. Morality be damned huh? Ethics right out the window might makes right.
hamas is an arm of Iran. the Palestinians getting killer don't deserve this. it's a proxy war by a terrorist state using militants against a people's who of course are going to fucking retailiate
They're talking about the current round, not the whole thing