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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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The problem is that “Public Safety” is an arbitrary metric. A Governor can’t strip citizens of Constitutional rights under the guise of some perceived “Public Safety” concern. It’s a complete violation of the Constitution.
Put simply: this is a horrible look for Democrats. Especially for a party that compared Trump to Hitler 24/7. This is what actual tyranny looks like. A single leader unilaterally stripping away rights from their citizens due to a self-declared “emergency”.
Gun homicide rates arent arbitrary
Neither are abortion rates. You’d support a governors ability to end all abortion in a state under a public health emergency?
Abortions are beneficial
To be fair, so are some homicides
Never
Hitler says what
Hitler was pretty pro homicide
He was also pretty xenophobic. Unfortunately, thats a bad combination.
Classic whatabout-ism:
Instead of having all these laws, we should simply solve the problem of evil.
Can Governors create Laws?
The problem with the term "abortion" and banning it is that an "abortion" is an umbrella term for many things.
When a woman has an ectopic pregnancy (embryo is forming in the fallopian tube, baby cannot develop and it will kill the mother) the "fix" is called an abortion. There is no scenario where the embryo can mature (they *need" to be attached to the uterine wall) and it would 100% kill the mother.
Another one is an incomplete miscarriage. It's when the embryo/fetus dies, but doesn't come out. And the fix is usually a D&C, which technically (in medical terms) results in, and is considered, an abortion.
While I personally do not agree with abortions (in the context of avoiding an otherwise healthy pregnancy). I would never shame or coerce someone from getting one. It's not my decision, and it doesn't involve me. I'm not part of the equation.
And despite my disagreement, I think anti-abortion laws are not only wrong, but also harmful.
The problem with the term 'gun rights' and banning them is that 'gun rights' is an umbrella term for many things. When a person owns a firearm for self-defense or hunting, and it is used responsibly, it is considered an exercise of 'gun rights.' There are also situations where the use of firearms is necessary for self-defense and protection.
Another example is target shooting or competitive shooting, which is a legitimate and responsible use of firearms. These activities are all grouped under the term 'gun rights.'
While I personally may not agree with unrestricted access to firearms (in the context of avoiding unnecessary risks and violence), I would never shame or coerce someone from exercising their Second Amendment rights. It's not my decision, and it doesn't involve me. I'm not part of the equation.
And despite my disagreement, I think restrictive gun control laws are not only wrong but also harmful.
Just like with abortion, the debate over gun rights is multifaceted and involves differing perspectives on individual rights, public safety, and the balance between regulation and personal freedom.
Your argument is basically "people who don't break the law are fine, so we shouldn't let people who do break the law ruin for the rest of us". Sounds like nuance, but it's not.
You somehow missed the fact that this isn’t a law. No elected member of the New Mexico Legislature voted on this. This is one person in the Executive Branch deciding they can write and impose law at their will. And you support this?
And you ignored their comment completely.
Is it gun homicide rates or violent crime rate that is used for determining where carrying is restricted?
Guns only have a role of homicide, they lead to more homicides, so they should always be restricted.
Guns are a force equalizer, they make victimizing anyone- weak or strong, a risk
They make a lot of things a fatal risk. Bad relationship? Road rage? Wanna be famous? Guns have let all these things be motivation for murder.
Kitchen knife
Baseball bat
Car
All far from comparable alternatives to a gun. Seriously, i encourage you to look up baseball bats in road rage incidents, and imagine a gun instead. And all of these things have roles outside of homicide.
Then why is it more likely to die from a gunshot if you own a gun? Aren't guns supposed to make sure you don't die?
A lot of reasons, people who feel the need to buy a gun are likely at higher risk of gun crime. For any significantly high enough group of people who own guns, some will be reckless and hurt themselves or provoke others. People are unempathetic and don't realize pointing a gun at others constitutes a deadly threat- to name a few reasons. Why do* you think?
Guns are designed so that their owner can immobilize a threat to their life as effectively as possible, that doesn't mean all people use them for their intended use case. Cars aren't designed to crash, but the more people that drive cars increases the risk of crashes. I personally am in a lot of cities at night- and would feel safer with a gun. I'm not exactly of a threatening stature, I'd rather be able to defend myself in those situations than just be at the mercy of basically the person attacking me who's bigger than me. There are tons of examples of people be paralyzed, getting concussions, or killed by people attacking them with fists, blunt objects, or knives when they're getting mugged. There is only one way I could (if carrying a gun were possible) credibly deter that.
The irony
How so? Of course if more people have guns there is more of a risk of someone getting shot, I don't think anyone denies that.
I assume you must be referring to just giving them your wallet, because having a gun doesn't really protect you from hand to hand violence by an attacker. Fights are risky and guns are a much much better tool for aggression than responding to a suddenly violent situation. Unless they're calling you out from across the saloon, by the time you know you're in danger they're usually too close. Carrying a gun just means you also get to give them your gun, not that you start blasting the bad guys.
You don't understand the Constitution. Those tights come with restrictions. It's part of the text.
Slippery slope, this shows other states they can do the same thing towards other rights that you might not like. Next thing you know it's the wild west with each state doing what they want.
Funny enough, the wild West regularly banned the carrying of handguns within city limits.
It's why there was a shootout at the O.K. Corral.
The entire idea behind state's rights.
No, not like that! It should only be about things that don't affect me! Like enslaving minorities!
That's a logical fallacy. We are already seeing states impose their will illegally against minority groups.
The people cheering this on would be LIVID if a Republican Governor unilaterally suspended all abortions in a state by declaring abortion a “public health” emergency.
These people have no idea what they’re cheering on.
Abortions and guns are basically the same thing in america
This is the same people who want to stack the courts or end the filibuster. They're short sighted idiots.
This is going to court. Let’s see who understands the constitution more.
To be clear- you’re saying this will 100% hold up in court?
You mean the thing that's up for interpretation and said interpretation has changed several times over the last two hundred and fifty years? Are you trying to say that there's only one correct way to read the Constitution?
I think you might be over reaching there, unless all these concealed and open carry folk were members of a “well regulated militia” and nobody noticed… There are plenty of otherwise “infringing” restrictions on bearing arms; you can’t point a gun at a cop just because your right to bear arms is enshrined in the second amendment, you can’t wheel a functioning howitzer with you wherever you go. You can’t own a sawn-off shotgun.
You are arguing the point but missing the context.
The Governor decided to do this unilaterally using a “Public Health Emergency”. This is not in regards to a bill passed by both chambers of New Mexicos Legislative Branch. This was the sole decision of a single person. The Executive Branch is detailed with carrying out the orders of the Legislature. They do not create Laws. That is what she is trying to do.
I do agree that, generally speaking, the Executive Branch isn’t designed to create laws, but it literally has these powers. PHEs, Martial Law, Executive Orders; the Executive Branch has tools in statute to meet the needs of crises.
I was arguing the context though tbf, I have my personal opinion on the ownership of weapons, however I’m not an any and all means person. That said, I leave an exemption in my thinking for emergencies, and the state of play in Albuquerque is pretty dire. Do I think it’s right to call an indefinite PHE? Probably not. Do I think it is an appropriate short term measure while longer term measures are considered? Probably yes.
The reason I bring up the curtailments in individual rights, regarding the second amendment, is to show there are many restrictions that are in place. The second amendment isn’t an absolute right at all times and in all ways; and it’s silly to think its power should outstrip other statutory tools being deployed in moderation.
Maybe I led the discussion in the wrong direction though, and for that I apologise, because I think the real question we both ponder is this, is a Public Health Emergency a moderate/proportional response to the situation at hand?