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Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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Antiwork
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
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This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Date Created: June 21, 2023
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Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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I never got the "economy would of been devastated if the banks weren't bailed out" argument made during the recession. The economy was in shambles anyway!
The government could have bought out the failed banks and nationalized them.
we don't have national federally owned banks available to the public, or at least any that I'm aware of.
So your idea is just pray for some rich people to buy the assets and not let the bank's customers without all their money?
What if this pray for the rich saviors is not answered? Any plan b? Maybe make this buying a law?
In most western countries the Govt only guarantees up to a certain amount per depositor (in US it is $250k).
The ballad of Silicon Valley Bank is a good example of why the Govts needed to bail out their banks during GFC. Without the govt backing those banks there would have seen huge runs, and in no time at all the imaginary money banks operate on would have disappeared, meaning companies can't pay workers, people can't buy groceries etc.
Note, I am not defending the heinous behaviour of finance execs leading up to, during and post GFC - for them I'd bring back the guillotine. But rather explaining that bailouts are needed sometimes to ensure the economy keeps 'flowing'. Post GFC has seen a lot of countries bring in tighter regulations for banks with regards to how much cash on hand they must have, how much in investments/bonds and how much exposure to loans they are allowed. Unfortunately I'm not sure if US took the opportunity to propose and enforce new regulations as many other nations did.
Nobody ever argued that the banks would of been devastated
They argued that the banks would have been devastated
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're correct!
the banks should have been seized and the owners should have lost it all and the government should have ran them for 5 years to stabilize the economy before selling them back off with conditions on their new owners and stronger regulations in general
Isn’t the banks failing how the Great Depression became significantly worse?
The executives and board members were never punished and made millions.
This is capitalism working exactly as intended. These aren’t bugs, they are features.
Because there was no FDIC.
An FDIC bailout would have been cheaper than TARP given the amount of money in most people's bank accounts.
For people with individual accounts worth over a quarter million? Tough titties. If you have so much cash it isn't worth your time to use multiple accounts in case of FDIC bailouts, you clearly don't need it.
Banks, yeah I agree with that. Oil is more complicated. When oil prices go up, the price of everything goes up, sometimes dramatically.
I'm not saying oil subsidies are a good thing, just that a lot more care needs to be taken with eliminating them.
I don't really see your point. Oil companies jack the price of oil up anyway, regardless of subsidies. The subsidies seem to only allow oil companies to expand their enterprises on US citizens' tax dollars (apologies if your in a different country, just change "US" to wherever you live). We're literally funding the expansion of industries that are actively killing our planet.
From another perspective, the only reason everything rises in cost when oil prices raise is due to oil dependance. It would be a momentary hardship, but oil prices rising would be a strong incentive for individuals and businesses to become oil-independant, which would mean using greener means of transportation, lowered plastic use, etc. It's actually long-term the best thing we could be doing right now.
Farm subsidies are a tricky one though.
Without them you end up importing all your food from Cheapistan. But then Cheapistan has a famine (or gets invaded), and then you have a problem. You can't just start up food production that quickly to avoid all your people starving.
The problem starts with the belief in simplifications that in no way reflect reality. "True capitalism" doesn't exist, can never exist, and is as undesirable as the plague. The connection with "free markets" is a feat of propaganda. This idea that socialism has no "free markets" is proof of the propaganda's success. Economies depend on markets. The capitalist idea of organisation is an anathema to free markets. While socialism is the closest one can get to a functioning "free market" system.
Getting back to farming subsidies, and subsidies in general. The issue is the distortions introduced through lobbyists and corporate machinations. The provision of subsidies is not governed by the question "what is best for the population?" Rather, it is about staying in power, serving clients, not people.