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In China, It’s Already Cheaper to Buy EVs Than Gasoline Cars
(www.washingtonpost.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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They are far simpler with fewer parts. It is only a matter of scaling up manufacturing. The biggest cost is the battery.
BYD is closing in on Tesla as the largest EV manufacturer and most Americans have no idea they exist.
I was in China two months ago and the use of electric cars is honestly changing the feeling of big cities. Delivery motorcycles and service vehicles are all electric now, and with the number of electric cars on the road, streets are a lot quieter now barring the frequent honking. Less air pollution too.
What I love about Chinese electric car manufacturers is that they've fully embraced the cyberpunk aesthetic from the chassis design to the car sounds. Made me feel like I was walking around a cyberpunk movie set.
Cannot wait until EV replaces the noisy crotch rocket bikes .
There were already tons of ebikes on the streets when I was there in 2016. It was a bit of a problem as a pedestrian as they are super quiet and the practice is to drive those things pretty much without regard for any concept of pedestrian right of way. You learned to be ultra careful crossing any street.
Electric bikes should in theory be much, much faster. Energy density is a problem, tho. Can’t fit much battery in a small frame, so you sacrifice power for range.
Find me a 200hp electric bike that will do 400km on a charge and I’ll be the first in line.
My CBR1000rr would do like 150kms on a tank. Find me any bike that will do 400.
Maybe I got a bit excited on the range there. Find me a bike that does 150km and charges in 30 seconds 😏
In the US, e-bikes are speed limited and ranked Class 1, 2, and 3 with the fastest going just below 30 MPH.
That's if you want to use bike trails. Get yourself a motorcycle license (not that difficult with MSF) and title a bike as one, and you can do some sketchy ass shit with frames and wheels not meant to go that fast.
Proper electric motorcycles are kinda crap right now. Expensive, and the range is limited. Battery tech doesn't yet scale down well for that market. Pedal assisted e-bikes, though, are pretty good.
As a noisy crotch rocket bike rider, I agree completely.
I just got back from a business trip to China also. The high proportion of EVs, particularly in the southern cities like Guangzhou and Shenzhen really stood out to me, and many of them (particularly from BYD) looked really, really nice. They seemed less prominent in the more northern part of the country (e.g. Shenyang, Beijing), but even there I'd say they're more common than in the UK.
It was a real eye opener
That was my experience as well. Very prevalent in Sichuan, but less so in Shanghai. Still, even in Shanghai, they were leagues ahead of Canada.
I mean, there's only 35 million people in Canada, a country with a larger land mass than China. The charging infrastructure in Canada is pitiful.
Would be interesting to see. The Chinese EVs being pushed on the market here (Europe) are the typical ugly huge American SUV style.
Yeah, American here. This isn't a huge mystery. Electric cars here are expensive because people refuse to give up their giant vehicles. American culture is so gross...
Shouldn't it be the opposite? If demand is low, then prices should correspondingly be down until adoption increases.
Certainly the opposite is often used to just y increasing prices
No, what I'm saying is that American car makers aren't producing small electric vehicles because Americans refuse to drive small cars, which makes the ridiculously large ones prohibitively expensive because the batteries have to be enormous.
There are definitely a lot of oversize vehicles in North America and trucks do have high sales, there's still plenty of people driving decent sized Japanese vehicles (Toyota, Honda).
I do agree that the "F350 to drive to work and do grocery runs" crap is dumb as fuck though.
The batteries on some of these SUV EVs weigh as much as a car. It's pretty silly.
Do you have pictures? I would love to see.
I found this article from last year showing some interesting models. You'll see the most popular EVs range from more classical designs to weird and retro-futuristic.
Some of them also make futuristic noises when they drive around... The noise isn't needed at all because the motor is pretty much silent, so they're added by manufacturers so you hear them coming. I swear they sound like something out of a '90s sci-fi flick.
Hope those are customizable. Can't wait to load up the TIE Fighter engine sound.
That Wuling Hongguang Mini EV is so adorable and looks like some sort or VW bus/classic car hybrid. I would totally drive that thing.
Also those BYD cars look like ripoffs of (in order) Kia/Hyundai (Qin Plus), Honda (Han), BMW (Dolphin), and Chevrolet (Yuan Plus)
So, the Vaporwave color pallete?
You kid, but yes!
Love this, thanks
I'd really like to see more of this. Do you know some of the names of these super cool manufacturers / designs?
Not the OP, but I live in China.
Check out for example the Xpeng (Xiao Peng) G6 and P7, the Qiantu K50, Zeekr 009, Lynk & Co. 03, Aiways U5 and the Dongfeng Mengshi M-Hero 917 (now if that's not HALO inspired, I don't know...).
Ah these are really cool, but I misread car and thought OP meant bikes. Americans will never be able to buy these sweet chinese cars.
I read in an article that chinese people who own these cars often sit in the back and have a driver. Is that true?
Oh sorry forgot to mention the drivers. In my experience this is not true at all. People who have drivers are usually senior executives, and they'd have company cars. Typically some top of the line Mercedes or BMW, sometimes a Porsche SUV. Electric cars (even the fancier ones) are rather affordable, and people here are very focused on their external impression.
Ah, what he mentioned were e-bikes, but those are not really on the fancy side. Search for 饿了么 scooter or 美团 scooter. They do food and grocery deliveries mostly. For private use, Niu scooters are the most popular in terms of design, but a ton of cheap stuff exists. Couldn't tell you about the brands, they are all very generic.
Electric motorbikes exist, but require a special license and are banned in most downtown areas, so they aren't really common. One brand I'm aware of is called Dayi Motors, they recently got certified for the European market, so chances are that those would become available elsewhere as well.
[Comment content deleted by author because apparently I was spouting lies!]
This brake dust problem is not true. Just another in a line of deceiving , sounds right but isn't, attacks on EVs from the fossil fuel industry and their allies. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2022/02/05/electric-cars-are-as-green-as-you-think-and-dont-produce-more-polluting-particles/?sh=528dfb522811
There is the tire problem, but 🤷♂️ That's more of a "Americans want to buy giant things" problem, and the battery designs that are seemingly just around the corner are lighter
https://news.yahoo.com/nasa-incredible-solid-state-battery-130000645.html
TIL!! I was snookered. Thanks so much for sharing this.
We all get snookered sometimes.
Electric cars use their brakes tremendously less than ICE ones.
I imagine electric cars would generate less brake dust due to their use of regenerative braking.
I actually think Chinese EVs are quite ugly.
BYD has chosen not to approach the US market until at least 2030.
Edit: Busses
They're building buses in California. I drive by this plant on occasion.
https://en.byd.com/news/byd-produces-400th-bus-in-lancaster
I personally like myself a Yutong E series... especially with the (fake) wood floor option and dark grey interior.
Why can't all public transport interiors be designed so nicely 😭
It’s only a matter of getting manufacturers to give the extra margin they’ve been creaming
Once your company became big, it is mandatory to have a state appointed party secretary on board.
So yes, in a sense BYD is state run.
I visited the BYD factory years ago. I have no idea how big it is compared to others but it absolutely blew my mind. I was up on like 5th floor and when they sounded the lunch bell it looked like ants out the window. I think they said it was about 600k employees in that building.
600k seems a bit too much. That's a fairly large city.