127
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/27603744
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2026
127 points (100.0% liked)
Memes
56664 readers
416 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
It gets messier when you remember that the current government of Ukraine is an ally of the Zionist entity and is providing air defense expertise to the perpetrators of the Gaza genocide, as well as participating in America's aggression towards Iran. So while I understand the instinct, the unfortunate blunt reality is that these two sides are diametrically opposed.
Russia is also the ally of Israel
I'm not gonna get into this with a tankie
Make like June 4, 1989 and never happen
Literally no one denies that June 4, 1989 happened. What we disagree on is what happened.
Nice strawman.
Lowkey it was funny though, haven't heard that one before
It's a bit too wordy imo to be an effective stand in for "fuck off" imo lacks flow and rhythm.
It's that winning combination of perfectly ignorant and perfectly smug about it that makes you people so odious. Enjoy being on the Nazi side of World War 3 I suppose. Just don't say you weren't warned, because you're being warned right now.
You liberals get cooked every single time because you have no arguments.
Anarchists: "Let them fight."
Nice crashout.
Do they have much of a choice while they're being invaded?
Ukraine support for Israel preceed the invasion and Israel did nothing to help Ukraine in contrary voted against UN, resolution condrmning Russia aggression and have zero sanctions on it
Basically all of Europe and the US supported Israel in some fashion pre-invasion. Skip the middle man and invade Israel instead then.
It is wrong when Ukraine does it , it is bad when russia does it , it is bad when the usa does it , it is bad when the rest of europe does it, it is bad when china does not use it's economical power to restrict israel . I do not advocate for attacking any middle man especially not Ukraine who is also experiencing a war of aggression on Ukraine
Does that matter to the people the UKR military kills in Iran and helps kill in Palestine?
But no, the Ukranian people have not had a choice in anything since having their government surgically replaced in 2014, or for that matter since having their government illegally dissolved in 1991.
My point with this specific post, as an olive branch to people who may not be familiar with the communist position, is not "Ukraine bad" so much as "This is what eventually happens to every American 'ally' no matter what promises have been made to the contrary, and other countries had best take notice".
I don't understand why tankies can't make the logical step from "governments of the west don't care about any peoples' sovereignty (despite justifying their war efforts with claims that they do) because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power" to "no governments care about any peoples' sovereignty because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power"
I actually did make that exact step as a teenage anarchist. Then I continued learning and realized this was an incorrect generalization, so I proceeded to update my understanding of the world in accordance with my dataset, something I have continued to do to this day and which has led me here. I followed a path of careful fact finding and reflection, and it turns out that political maturity is realizing the commies were correct.
...except for anarcho-communists who actually know what they're talking about.
I don't disagree with this as a whole--Marxists are pretty much dead on with most of their analysis and see the world a hell of a lot more clearly than people still indoctrinated by capitalism. The problem is that Marxists-Leninists don't go far enough when they diagnose the problems with capitalist society. They think it's enough that power structures are seized by the proletariat and set up to align with their interests, as they believe (based on their analysis of how societies work) this will inherently cause the power structures to wither away over time. But that's not how power works. You can't fully reduce it down to class conflict.
When a Marxist says "the history of societies is the history of class struggle", imo there are two ways to read it: (a) Class and class struggle has made up the core of all societies' structure and general existence for all history; or (b) There is nothing else to societies' structure or general existence that is not reducible to class and class struggle
I agree with (a). It's supported by history and evidence. (b) inherently can't be because it presupposes itself.
From my own understanding of history, I think that a strictly ML understanding of how societies work misses a vitally important aspect of the role power plays. I could be wrong about that! But I've yet to see a ML explanation of why it's necessarily wrong. And I think the reason for that it because ML theory presupposes itself. It wants to say (b). And in that sense, I think it's actually a wildly un-humble framework: not only does it make the bold claim that all of history is just class, it forms the basis for governments that force this restrictive historical understanding on people and dismiss any other framework as liberal or reactionary.
As the article claims about MLs, there are plenty of anarchists who don't know what they're talking about--who have a really shallow understanding of power or are secretly just liberals. But anarcho-communism is thus far the only framework I've found that addresses all of the historical dynamics and structures identified by Marx and Marxists while still being humble enough to admit that it doesn't necessarily hold all the right answers and that it's not the only valid framework out there.
That must be why anarcho-communism is the tendency that has spawned the most successful revolutions and uplifted all those hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. Oh, wait.
Ooh, time for the classic "we violently shut down your attempt at revolution, therefore your theory must not work" argument y'all like to use that totally isn't just a repackage of the liberal argument about why communism doesn't work. You're so caught up in your dogma that you're repeating the same gaslighting shit capitalists spout to justify why capitalism/liberal democracy is the only realistic system.
Because that's a kindergarten understanding of socialist/ML theory and politics in general
Can you think of any non context-dependent dynamics?
I deleted my original comment because it wasn't worded very well and came from a place of frustration and exhaustion. But what I was attempting to get at with "context-dependent dynamics" is that the model of history described by Marx can't be claimed to hold explanatory power in every possible aspect of sociology/anthropology/social sciences generally, because that's not how any model of anything works (as you said). Whenever I get into these conversations with MLs, it feels like they can't conceive of there being an aspect of how the human world works that isn't reducible to class struggle and dialectical materialism. Comparing it to physics, it's like they're hearing about quantum mechanics and all the extra complications and nuances that introduced in order to explain results that classical physics couldn't, and just perpetually going "nah, classical physics has been right about everything else. We must just be mismeasuring these results."
I don’t even know what you’re saying tbh. Context dependent dynamics? Power is bad and context is bad? Is that from some anarchist theory?
That's a position I respect. Yep.
Yes American promises are why Russia invaded despite being signatories to a treaty guaranteeing Ukrainian sovereignty.
Why do you think Russia invaded?
Excuses are great, still breaks a treaty.
That sort of thing has a real cost in geopolitics.
Condescension aside, saying that in favor of the faction that kicked this off by breaking both Minsk Agreements is some crazy irony
Anyway why did Russia cross the border, according to you?
Ukraine didn’t break the Minsk agreements and no reputable source claims they did.
Russia invaded Ukraine because they fear neighbouring states that aren’t under Russia’s boot.
If you were a communist you’d recognise that Russia is a totalitarian Oligarchy and a terrible place for the proletariat.
That's the best part. They're communist in name only. Like China!
They can't understand anything not told to them by propaganda outlets, don't expect them to know history or reality.
This is just chauvinistic. The further away from your place the less trustworthy you are of it.
It just comes off as ironic considering the name of your account is someone who was persecuted and and put down by society of people like YOU.
So true, bestie. When you completely make up nonsensical positions and assign them to people, completely unrelated to what they say or believe, those positions are indeed nonsensical!
That really tells us a lot about the world 🤓