cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/27603744
Sad thing is that Ukraine wouldn't have gotten nearly as much support if it looked like they had no chance of winning, or at least resisting.
I think the diplomatic logic is what's the point in supporting a loser - your support doesn't change anything and when they lose you're on the winners shit list. If you support a winner then you may have a beneficial relationship in the future.
Doesn't really work like that. Russians are not less white than Ukrainians but their ultranationalist ideas are not nearly as supported in the West.
(Not saying Russian ultranationalism is better in any regard)
❌️ "Violence is morally bad"
❌️ "Violence is morally good"
✅️ "Morality isn't real and violence simply Is."
Violence is not the answer. Violence is the question. The answer is "Yes"
Ukraine was invaded, and Palestine was invaded so yeah both has the right to defend themselves
Why too simplistic:
Palestine got invaded, ethnically cleaned and massively murdered for decades.
Ukraine was cultural a divided country where West and Russia alike used one band or the other to rein power on the entire country. However in 2014 the West overstep the pro-West, pro-Russia alternation with a Coup. Immediately 1/3 of the country got itself completely disfranchised (no vote, no representation, no even could speak its language) and a civil war ensured and then even that 1/3 got without no pensions or services. The sad thing is that the coup was not even needed since Viktor Yanukovych was going to be voted out in just 11 months, but Washington was not having it and needed its coup to put the alternation to an end and be able to make its long-wished constitutional changes to Ukraine . The rest is history.
Russia is not saint here, not at all, but Russia did get invaded and massacred multiple times by the West and every single time through Ukraine... I think if Moscow have a bit if concern it is perfectly warranted. Ukraine should have done what Finland did in 1940s-2010s, side with the West but full warranties to Russia of being fully Neutral and away from NATO.
When Putin keep talking about how Ukraine is a artificial state and keep claiming that Ukrainians are just Russian by mentioning Kyivan Rus , I can't accept his claim that he is invading Ukraine for security reasons. Kyivan Rus was built in the 9th centuries, the ancestors of modern Ukrainians were distinct, indigenous tribes who had already built thriving settlements and founded the city of Kyiv by the 5th century.
Not a Putin fan, but that speech is taken out of context. He was making the point their history is very interlinked, and that it is hard to argue (Northern Ireland is indeniable Ireland, but its history is very related to UK so a compromise was made to maintain peace, can you imagine if Catholics forbid Protestants to vote there?) . Funny enough, most of Ukraine land was acquired/given to Ukraine while it was under some sort of Moscow's dominance. The original Ukraine was just a territorial fraction of what it is today. Ukraine should
Again, in the ideal world, Ukraine should have full autonomy to decide its future, but the Washington and Moscow alike did not like that. I am Ukrainian, would work for a neutrality formula. US does the same with Cuba and Venezuela and US has 0% chances of being invaded by Chine through any of those 2 countries.
What I do notice is the irrational hatred of thinking the other as sub-human... I saw that behavior far, far more in Ukrainians than I did with Russians (at least till 2024).
I watched the whole interview with Tucker , I i don't think it is out to context . I see no other interpretation to saying a country or state is artificial same to how israel call the west bank as Judea and Samaria and claim that Palestinians do not exists to justify what they do
just gonna post the same comment I made last time this was posted:
the lemmyworlds and their orbiters are gonna be upset about this one
Can't forget the sjw users
genuine, where do .mls find antipalestenians in lemmy? I have never seen a single one here outside of blatant trolls whenever someone posts a meme like this
There's a lot of them, but mostly it's the same troll users who only spit hasbara. Unfortunately they're also mods on a few large news comms (cough lemmy.world) and feddit instances
Plenty of "pro-palestinians" around who condemn hamas and the rest of the resistance groups or call them terrorists etc.
Not a tanki but most people here reject Palestinian right to defend themselves or defend the Zionist ideology or bring neutral towards it
Where? Of all places, lemmy certainly doesn't have folks defending zionists and even in western society at large you have public sentiment against Zionism (or at the very least, the west helping fund it)
You can identify the liberals in this thread because they dislike this, but can’t provide a single credible argument against it.
