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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2026
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Late Stage Capitalism
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Problem solved! We'll all just go...not vote?
Hmmm...that doesn't seem right. Doesn't that let all the people who really want to vote for the 51 death camps decide who's in charge then?
Either way you get death camps, get off the trolley and discover there's a no death camp option
What is the no death camp option in the United States? I would genuinely like to know.
The only option I'm aware of is voting more, not less. Vote in every primary and every local election. Make yourself part of the process.
By electing the same people that got us into this mess?
You didn't answer the question. What's the no death camp option?
You have to create it, it wont be handed to you on a silver platter. You can start by not kissing the dems arses and yelling at them to do better or fold up shop. While showing the republicans the back of your hand too, obviously. They are playing you and using your vote like its a foregone conclusion, and you are letting them. Why not stand up for yourself? Or do you have any morals at all? American selfishness is another issue and it disguises itself as learned helplessness.
And how does not voting help that?
What is it with liberals when someone says you don't have to support the oligarchy they translate that to don't vote
Obvious troll is obvious. Your whole post is about not voting.
Also you're probably more of liberal than me little guy.
Your post says not to vote for the lesser evil. Voting for the greater evil would be stupid. Are you advocating for voting third party then? What is your actual suggestion?
That's one of the major problems, Democrats claim to support the no death camp issue, but they want someone else to do all the work so they can come in afterwards, jump on our bandwagon as if they supported it the whole time
It would be the option for expressing power outside of voting....
And how has that gone for you? How many concentration camps has it stopped?
I mean it's not going well, but I having trouble thinking of a time where a country voted its way out of having concentration camps either.
Britain ended slavery and the transatlantic slave trade through voting.
Is that really what happened though? Domestic political pressure from the electorate, rather than economic pressure from the merchant class, and geopolitical opportunism?
You know what stops pipelines? Physical altercations. You know what stops cop cities? Physical altercations. Voting has only ever increased the military, increased the police, and increased the prisons. Voting one way or the other literally has no impact. The only way to stop this stuff is to fight.
Like the Keystone XL pipeline that was delayed by Obama, then Trump tried to force it through and then was finally stopped when Biden signed an executive order revoking their permit?
Which cities are no longer "cop cities" (whatever that means) because of physical altercstions?
Voting passed civil rights, voting ended gay criminalisation, voting passed labour laws, healthcare reform and women's rights.
And when it goes the other way voting gets us war in Iran, gets criminalised abortions, legalised transphobia, qualified immunity for cops, "clean coal", legalised pedophilia, people executed by ice, and hundred of thousands of people deported.
There is literally no argument for fighting for your rights that excludes voting as well.
The Keystone XL pipeline was delayed by Obama in response to the physical altercations that were happening to prevent it. He didn't do that because we voted for him, he did it because we were willing to fight. More to the point, though, the Ds didn't actually come up with a way to stop it from happening. They delayed it using the office of the president, which immediately created the opportunity for Trump. Solving this with presidential action is exactly the sort of performative bullshit the Ds are great at. While Obama blocked the permit for the Keystone XL, he also drove the single largest expansion of fossil fuel production the US has ever seen under a single president.
Because it was never about voting him in to protect the environment. It was about putting your body on the line and fighting with riot police.
The fact that you don't know what a cop city is makes you woefully under equipped for this part of the conversation m. Go do some reading. Cop cities have strong bi-partisan support and the only thing stopping them is protestors physically disrupting construction sites.
Only because there were riots and radical disobedience. I mean, think about women's suffrage. The women couldn't vote their way to suffrage, definitionally. They got it by making it impossible to ignore them. When all they did was lobby, they got nowhere for decades. They had to shut things down and make life very hard for everyone else to get what they wanted. They literally couldn't fucking vote, how could this be an example of the power of voting?
The US has been at war for 99% of its existence. Truman, the Democrat, launched the genocidal war in Korea. Johnson, the Democrat, launched the genocidal war in Vietnam. Obama, the Democrat, launched the mass murdering war in Libya (which was planned under Bush 2). Biden sent millions of weapons to Israel and collaborated with them to continue the genocide in Palestine. The war in Iran is this administration's special war, but every single administration is bathed in blood and it goes back to the founding of the country.
Because the Democrats had multiple trifectas over the last 40 years and openly refused to codify Roe into law. And they did so by blaming their own party members as anti-abortion. So the Ds are telling you openly that the reason we don't have abortion protected in law is because the Ds literally can't do it because Ds oppose it. How much clearer do they need to be?
Bruh. The Supreme Court made transphobia illegal, not the Democrats. Transphobia has been a bipartisan legal structure across the US for well over a century.
Qualified immunity is a judicial doctrine, not a party position. Democrats aggressively supported qualified inmunity. It's only recently that Ds shifted their position and it's explicitly because of the riots in 2020, not because people voted for them.
Obama was a huge proponent of clean coal. Are you daft?
I mean, Biden explicitly didn't prosecute the Epstein case, he refused to let the DOJ release the files, he had all the knowledge as did his DOJ and they did nothing.
All the data I have looked at is that cops killing people is independent of party in office. As in, it literally doesn't matter who you vote in, cops will kill people at about the same rate. Yes, the R's use of ICE and DHS in the streets of major cities is absolutely shocking.
But Obama and Biden developed these departments into the tool they are. They expanded data collecting and sharing for these departments. They created the structure required to deploy ICE and BORTAC into American cities. Hell, Homan was Obama's pick to run ICE and was his top deportation official. It's not surprising Trump would continue to rely on him for the same purpose.
Obama still holds the current record for most people deported - 3 million, with an additional 2 million at the border.
I know that the narrative is that Democrats are the exact opposite of the things that are terrible about the Republicans, but it's a false narrative. They both advance the same agendas, and where they differ, the Ds make everything they do easily reversible or ignorable. But worse is that the Ds actively create the tools the Rs use.
So no. Voting doesn't create change. People in the streets creates change.
Keystone XL pipeline was canceled because of physical altercation, voting rights and civil rights were passed because of physical altercations. The gay community only won their rights because of physical altercations. What is it with liberals that are terrified of actual protest?
don't be petulant.
It isn't there. Vote for whoever you want, but acknowledging that you were not given choices at all is important.
Keep going please...Tell me how that would work in the US system of First Past The Post elections.
Or if First Past The Post elections is the problem, tell me how you would get rid of that system.
It would require not using elections to express power
Well first I want you to imagine having a sense of decency, an ability to feel shame, and identify what morality you have, if any. Let me know when you get to that point and we'll talk next steps. Whats worth you acting on? Not someone else, you.
edit: no reply, and theres your answer. You will only act when you are literally lit on fire, and until then you'll sit there and do nothing while flapping your mouth uselessly, same as you centrist lot always do. You are a walking liability to whatever political party will have you.
Sigh...
So you don't actually have a real solution for getting rid of the conservatives and neoliberals in office.
You just want everyone to know that you're too cool to be a Republican or a Democrat. 👍
You don't need to get rid of that system. All you do is need to vote for candidates that do not support the oligarchy. But liberals are not concerned about long-term success, their concern about the short-term win
It's not like you can't do both. Vote the lesser evil, get off the trolley.
So the solution is get off the trolley but keep supporting the people that are creating the trolley situation?
They don't require your support to hold elections. What would "not supporting" elections by not voting do, exactly?
Who said anything about not voting? Liberals have locked themselves into a binary system of oppression that they claim to oppose
Ok, are you proposing to vote? For whom?
Literally whomever isn't a genocidaire
I said 'vote the lesser evil' you opposed. So I'd say you said that.
Basically, don't expect significant change from Democrats until we can get rid of the neo-liberals. Until then, you're just voting harm that's getting steadily worse.