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this post was submitted on 26 Apr 2026
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Not if men made you wear it. Or men made you think you must wear it.
Or even other women made you think you must wear it.
Same thing applied to women pressed into convents vs nuns. Or someone ordered into a long skirt vs choosing. The issue is choice, as it always is.
Then she isn't wearing whatever she wants.
That's the thing with religion. It's always brainwashing so how could it ever be what they want?
Assuming all adult women who wear hijabs can't make their own decisions about what they wear is removing their agency, not enforcing it. That's anti-feminist.
No, I assume anyone that partakes in any sort of religious tradition does so from being brainwashed. Many traditions even outside of religion are done just because it's the way we have always done them. Some are kept up for fun, some are kept up for control. Religion is absolutely about control.
Religion can be about control, it can also be about personal belief and faith.
If you assume anyone with faith is brainwashed, there is no point in arguing further. I hope you have more experiences with different people and the wider world so your opinions might gain some nuance.
That's the thing, I have had experience with lots of people and cultures. That's why I've arrived at the conclusion I have. Religion can make otherwise intelligent people believe the most ridiculous things.
People can believe ridiculous things for any reason at all. Doesn't mean I'll detract from someone's autonomy to wear whatever they want for whatever reason.
I didn't say they can't wear it. I'm totally fine with that. I'm not fine with religion and its brainwashing. The symptom isn't the problem, the disease is.
But you're still saying they're not making the choice of their own free will, which is still anti-feminist.
I disagree. Why is not wanting women to be brainwashed anti feminist?
Assuming they're brainwashed because they don't share your ideology is.
No, don't be ridiculous. That's not why I think that. Religion survives from brainwashing. Look, I get we're not going to see eye to eye on this. Maybe you yourself are religious and don't want to come to terms with this. That's fine. Can we agree that if someone is brainwashed they don't truly have free will, but that we disagree on where/when the brainwashing starts/ends? That seems to be thr fundamental disagreement and you're trying to twist it into something it is not in order to win a debate we're not having.
I'm not trying to twist anything, I'm going off what you said about religion and brainwashing. We do fundamentally disagree on whether a religious person is brainwashed or not.
I won't agree to the caveat, but here's why: Brainwashing isn't a definitive term. People can be coerced, but even then the lines are fuzzy. You can be coerced to do one thing while having complete freedom in another choice.
I'm an athiest and I'm not spiritual. But if you don't want to engage any further, we can stop.
You can't even agree that a brainwashed person hasn't made their own decision. What was even the point of engaging in conversation in that case? Honestly, I don't even care what made up reason you'll have.
Okie dokie, you have a good day.
Ayn Rand has entered the chat.
Very 14 year old mindset there.
Embrace of a belief system that teaches that women should have less rights and less agency is anti-feminist, even if that embrace is of a feminist's choosing.
It's a child like mindset that keeps people in religions.
Why do you think style changes over time, and has accelerated with television and advertisements? We are all being made to buy and wear something, be it to follow the advertisement "this is the must to wear of the season", or to oppose consumerism.
So if we can now agree that there is no real free choice, and every choice is to some degree influenced by patriarchy, where do we stand? Does feminism even exist? Or is feminism less about what you wear, and more about how you feel about patriarchy?
It's not even close to the same thing... Or is there an entire purity culture around fashion where people straight up murder their children because they didn't wear the newest jeans?
I am sure nobody ever committed suicide because they were bullied because of their clothing