cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7804222
You can tell this is fake because the USA soldier would shoot the child as well
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When writing stuff like "lol" and "iirc", it's a good idea to try and replace those with their all caps counterpart
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1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
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That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" (read: Dengists) (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
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The only dangerous minority is the rich.
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We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
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Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
How could someone with "math" in their name be this bad at simple logic? Oh, "christian". Got it.
Ok so now we're just doing religious discrimination?
The only good kind of discrimination.
Oh so you're awful. Got it 👍
Do you even know who the "l" in .ml stands for? Lenin was hardly a model of religious tolerance. He saw Christianity as a tool of oppression. On that much, I agree.
Yeah, it was bad when Lenin did it. It was arguable one of the worst things Lenin did. We're supposed to learn from that and not perpetuate it any further. Marxism is a science that evolves and we now understand religious discrimination was a mistake and horrible. You should not be perpetrating it today.
Why exactly is it bad? We don't protect any other ideas or fantasies that way. How is belief in a magic sky daddy really any more respectable than belief in a flat earth? I support the right of everyone to choose to believe in such things, but I don't see why they can't be made fun of. The US constitution protects religious belief from the state, but it doesn't protect it from mockery. That wasn't an accident. It's also not "religious discrimination".
You can respect other people even if you don't agree with their religious beliefs.
I don't think you understand "respect" any more than you understand "religious discrimination". I respect Christians so much that I think they can handle a little mockery and don't need special protection.
"Dumb" and "valid" cannot be true at the same time lmfao, that's the simple logic I am getting at.
This ain't rocket science. There are valid criticisms to be made. This ain't one of them.
So you don't consider it a valid criticism? Then what "both" things did you think were true?
Edit: am I understanding this chain correctly that you think it's invalid because it could be made about other nations as well??
As I said in the original comment and haven't really touched on since, it's about the campism. This would be a valid criticism of modern "soldiering" in general, but the strong implication that this is a uniquely American problem is completely ridiculous.
If anything, the real world reputation of American soldiers in regards to civilians is among the least terrible. That's not to say they are ethical in an absolute sense, because there have been lots of sickening incidents, for instance abu ghraib, but nothing like the reputation of Russian or even Chinese soldiers.
If there is a glaring failure in this regard that continues to be an issue, it's with drone strikes and other weapons of mass destruction. You still don't have practices like what Russia is doing to Kiev, but the US is still way too quick to brush off "collateral damage". There is also a lot to criticize on how the US justifies it's interventions. The current attack on Iran is entirely unjustified, and it has plenty of support from both parties.
On the ground though, US frontline troops are among the best trained in the world at avoiding civilian casualties and cooperating with local populations. I'm sure that's getting worse under Hegseth, but US armed forces have been taught to question orders in ways that other great powers are reluctant to allow, especially Russia. If anyone is better it's some European forces, but the people who embrace this cartoon would not like that point since it's still "the west".
I really hate campism because the real war is with the global elites. Elites spend lots of money to promote the notion that what really matters is the fight between good and bad governments, always with different ideas of which is which. Meanwhile the elites themselves have no national allegiances. Trump clearly identifies far more as a member of the global elites than as an American. The elites are the enemy the left should be fighting.
Are you fucking serious? lmao. "I hate 'campists', BTW US soldiers are the most moral in the world unlike the soldiers of the evil orc people who are the enemies of the US." You're nothing but a racist and an American nationalist (I repeat myself). Really making it obvious why you had a problem with US soldiers specifically being criticized.
I'm (not) sorry to tell you this, but US soldiers are not more moral than Russian soldiers (a country which has done a fraction of the damage the US has done if even that) and CERTAINLY not more moral than Chinese soldiers who haven't gone to war in 40+ years.
And before you tell me you didn't say they were moral, you're not fooling anyone when you try to sneak it in with arguments about comparing "reputations".
I never said anything about orc people. Russian infantry have a reputation for brutality towards civilians and it's earned. They don't even really try to hide it. Russian isn't a "race". Also, what do you expect when Russia slaughters civilians wholesale and relies almost entirely on "meat wave" tactics. Whether the comparison to orcs is racist can be debated, but it's clear where it comes from.
My claim about US troops was that they were less terrible. Unfortunately, moral ground troops are hard to find in today's world. I also said they were better trained at certain things, and I stand by it. That's not in spite of their many deployments, it's because of it.
If you want to know about the PLA I suggest asking someone who faught them. Perhaps Japan. If you want more recent, then look at the tens of thousands of Tibetan civilians that were killed - most in labor camps. That's a bit worse than "collateral damage" from an errant missile. (And yeah, if it was an Israeli missile I think an investigation into how "accidental" it was is warranted.
I was also very critical of IS decisions to go to war in the first place and how they justify it, so what the fuck are you talking about? I'm not "sneaking" anything in. I said what I said because it was precisely what I meant.
Unlike you I don't pick a team before making my conclusions. There is shit that's good about the US, and stuff that isn't. Same is true of China. As for Russia and Israel, I'd love to say something good about them, but they make it pretty tough.
The fact that you think the US is better than Russia says enough about your imperial chauvinism, in my opinion. There's only one part of this comment I'll even bother replying to.
You barely even took a sentence to go from "I didn't call them orc people" to defending calling them orc people. Again, I don't know who you think you're fooling with these kinds of rhetorical contortions.
Cancer is better than Russia, so that's no great achievement. My comment was that there is not much good to say about Russia. I notice you didn't point out something I missed, you just went straight to an ad hominem.
Yes, my point was both that I didn't say the thing you claimed was racist, and that it wouldn't have been racist anyways. No contortion, just you being wrong twice in one statement. And, again, you didn't bother arguing the point, you just went for yet another ad hominem. That's three if you count calling me racist.
Yeah, you said they weren't a race? So it's not racist to call an ethnicity orcs, because ethnicity is not race? That's barely an argument, though it is a racist one.
You are being racist. Even if you had said nothing else, the only reason to believe the US is acceptable in any way while Russia isn't is racism and chauvinism. As I said above, you did say something else and it was racist.
I suspect all this "ad hominem" nonsense is posturing, but if you really think you're doing some great debate here, don't bother replying. I have no interest in "debating" with an American chauvinist with a Russia obsession, which I thought I had made clear with my previous replies.
"Russian" is an ethnicity, but it's also a nationality. Since we are talking specifically about Russian troops, its the nationality being criticized, not the ethnicity. Either way, I never called them orcs, I just pointed out that their behavior invites the comparison. You aren't much for subtlety, are you?
Back to the ad hominems, and the misquoting. I never said the US is "acceptable". I have only spoken in favor of a single attribute of US ground troops, and I've been quite clear that there are many aspects of the US that are entirely unacceptable. The current war with Iran is entirely so, as have been many similar adventures.
There is only so "great" one can be at debating when the "arguments" are as bad and fabricated as yours.
Yeah, you just went on a whole roundabout justification of other people doing it, that's very different. Here's a hint: someone who wasn't racist would have said "I never called anyone an orc" instead of doing that.
No, you've just made it clear that you can accept its existence and not the existence of Russia.
You uncritically repeated a single attribute of US ground troop propaganda, actually.
This isn't a "debate", I thought I had been pretty clear about that. I don't care to "debate" with someone who thinks America is better than Russia.
LOL, falling back on "That's propaganda!". The one lame trope you had yet to pull out. Well, calling any argument or fact that favors the west "propaganda" is also propaganda so there! I sure got you good.
It's getting really old pointing this but, no, I didn't say that either. If I tell someone that their behavior is unacceptable, that does not imply that their "existence" is unacceptable. To whatever extent you think I need to say it, I will say that Russia's continued existence is just fine with me. However, I'm done with this bullshit. You win, or whatever.
OK, you can continue to believe the US has particularly moral ground troops whereas Russians are like orcs.
As I said, this isn't a debate. But I agree with you that we have nothing to say to each other.
And yet your jaw keeps flipping.
Don't pretend you're not trying to get the last word, lol.
"I'm not racist but-"
but... what? But the thing you wrongly accused me of saying wouldn't have been racist anyways? That's not exactly the gotcha you were looking for.
Why is everybody from lemmy.ml so disingenuous in their arguments? It's almost like you have no legitimate arguments to make.
You immediately proceeded to weasle-word around saying you have no problem with a racist term
This is racist. You are racist.
Sure buddy.
Mask-off ~~imperial soldier~~ massmurderer detected
Your kind just murdered 153 children
You're even worse at lying than trump
Our ground troops, or airstrikes? Did you read my whole comment, or were you just looking for something to bitch about and stopped there?
Did Russia bomb any civilians today? How about yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that? You complaining about that too?
Pardon me, but what exactly has the PLA done that's so egregious, so much so that it outshines Shock and Awe, Abu Ghraib, the kangaroo court and illegal execution of Saddam Hussein, years long bloody occupation of Iraq, slaughter in Fallujah, forced labor in Fallujah, The Haditha Massacre, with all that not even being the full extent of American crimes in Iraq, and that just being Iraq alone, not speaking on Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, and all the other places the US has waged illegal wars and pillaging abroad. To be frank, What the fuck are you talking about brother?
Ask Tibet.
Damn, who is this "Mr. Tibet"? Do you have his phone number?
China killed him.