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submitted 2 days ago by floofloof@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world

cross-posted from: https://infosec.pub/post/42694823

Trump has no power to “decree” that voters must present ID or to end mail-in balloting. But that doesn’t mean he can’t at least try both. Under the Insurrection Act or some other dusty statute, he can declare a state of emergency. Then he can decide that said state permits, nay requires, him to take extraordinary measures. On October 5, say, that might mean outlawing early voting. By October 13, it might mean no mail-in voting. By October 29, a reminder that all voters must present ID to vote. And by Sunday, November 1, two days before the election—an announcement that all these “reasonable” measures have alas failed, and he is now forced, against his will, to postpone the election.

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[-] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

Can anyone tell me what's the big deal with voter ID? It's a standard in EU, Noone complains about it there.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

A current example is states invalidating all Trans people's IDs during a primary election. That's happening right now.

Also - getting an ID is expensive and time consuming in the US. The cliche of spending 4 hours in line at the DMV to get a license even though you made an appointment ahead of time isn't an exaggeration, and applies to getting an ID as well. The reality is most people won't spend the time and money to do it just so they can vote every 2 or 4 years - especially people who can't afford to take a day off work and travel to do it.

But people will do it so they can drive their car every day - so people with IDs are more likely to have more money.

And for people who have driver's licenses that fall on hard times it's also a problem, because they stop paying for insurance (invalidates driver's license), lose their car (keeps them from paying for insurance or renewing license), or even lose their home (address change invalidates license). These are not people who can take a day to go pay to vote. And that's exactly what they'd be doing, because the new ID card they'd be buying would strictly be for voting. Aside from the cost of the ID, when I updated my DL in June I had to travel 80 miles round trip, and the process took about 7 hours - and I had a car to speed things up.

So it's effectively pay-to-vote system that only applies to poor people. People with money can vote for free through "motor voter" registration by checking a box when getting or renewing their driver's license.

[-] ecvanalog@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

In the US, there is no free option for public ID. Voting is a right. You are required to prove identity at the time of registration, which can be done using your birth certificate.

Essentially, the push for photo ID is a way to disenfranchise poor people, women and trans people, and other groups who may for whatever reason not have easy access to an “acceptable” ID.

Historically our courts have found that creating a financial barrier to voting is a violation of the constitution. The current Supreme Court, staffed entirely by far-right activists rather than serious jurists, is far less likely to rule that way, so anti-democracy folks are pushing to establish a new precedent before the court can be reformed.

[-] PM_ME_YOUR_BOOBIES@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

The idea of not having a government issued photo ID in the US is inane to me. I didn't know it wasn't a basic thing as a us citizen.

[-] ecvanalog@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

It is for most people. But most people aren’t all.

[-] wolfpack86@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago

In my experience in an EU country, sufficient ID was also provided freely by the government (eg a social security card).

This is not something in the US that is free. ID must also be a photo ID. So let's say you have a job where you work 7 days a week and take the bus because you don't have a driver's license. To get sufficient ID you must then: take unpaid time off of work, get to an office that issues ID, pay like $20 for such an ID... All to have the opportunity to exercise the right to vote.

This is both a tax and an unreasonable burden, effectively disenfranchising millions of poor people.

This is solvable though, if the government issues free IDs and sets something up to facilitate people getting their photos taken. However that would never be executed effectively, nor would people support paying the costs.

[-] smeenz@lemmy.nz 19 points 2 days ago

You omitted that in the US, employment is largely "at will", which means even taking a few hours off work, even asking for that, can result in that person being fired, and many won't take that risk.

[-] SpaceCadet@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 day ago

This is solvable though

They don't want to solve it... the unreasonable burden and disenfranchisement are the point.

[-] Xylian@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

In Germany you do not need a ID to vote. Every citizen gets a voting invitation per mail which is a notification saying when and where to vote. It is also a single use "voting ticket", as instead of a ID.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Legally, the people in the polling station may require you to show ID. It's just never done.

[-] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

$20 once every like 10 years is unreasonable?

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago

For an ID? No. For voting? Yes. Having to pay anything for voting is a problem. Just as having to stand in line all day, thus paying by not earning, is a major problem.

[-] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

It's an extremely small cost for ensuring most important democratic process is untampered. The opposition for voter ID check is completely unreasonable

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 day ago

Believing that everyone can find money for an ID is extremely privileged.

I have had students who couldn't put together the equivalent 15USD, without a month's notice. In the US you have entire families being homeless, we don't.

[-] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Well that's great, since next elections are far more than one month away. You just made an argument that even poor students can afford it

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I also made the argument that you shouldn't have to pay to vote, but you don't like to respond to that. Only that you, through your immense intellectual powers, have found the logical loophole, that made me debate whether I should even make my comment.

Is the age of your account an indication of your intent to troll, or do you care to explain, why it's OK to require people to pay to vote? Not why it's not unaffordable, but why it's OK to require payment to vote.

[-] ecvanalog@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Except that it’s already secure. There are monitors, studies, and statistics to back the fact that illegally voting is a statistically nonexistent problem. The number of such cases is vanishingly small. There is no problem that needs solving here. It’s just assholes like yourself trying to impose their will on the law.

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

In the USA the issuing of IDs will be made deliberately difficult enough to discourage cartain demographics in a way that favours Republicans. For example, it may carry a fee so poor people are discouraged, it may require your birth name and gender so trans people are discouraged, it will require birth certificates and marriage certificates so immigrants and women are discouraged. The whole thing will be used to erode the numbers of non-white-male voters and this disproportionately boost the right.

Kansas Republicans just invalidated the driving licenses of trans people overnight with no warning. We can expect the same kind of political shenanigans with Real ID.

[-] SpaceCadet@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 day ago

In the EU everyone is likely to have an official ID card, so it's a non-issue.

In the US this is not the case, and the people who do have an ID or who are likely to know what to do to get an ID probably skew a certain way. So requiring voter ID is a way of voter suppression to discourage disenfranchised groups from voting.

[-] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

If they don't bother to vote it's their choice. The requirement isn't unreasonable in any way.

[-] SpaceCadet@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 day ago

If they're putting up barriers to selectively exclude certain voices, it becomes everyone's problem because the outcome of the election no longer represents the will of the people.

Even if 90% of the group that they're trying to suppress does get an ID, and 10% doesn't, it can be enough to swing elections, especially in a winner-takes-all system that's in place in most of the US.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

People in the English-speaking countries generally don't have government issued ID beyond a driver's license. That's also true for the UK. Historically, ID cards are connected to military conscription. The UK could rely on the Navy for defense and did not maintain vast land armies like the continental nations. Political initiatives to introduce ID cards are usually rejected by voters as totalitarian overreach.

The former slave states in the US have a history of using procedural rules to exclude blacks from voting. After the end of slavery, there was formally equality before the law. So, laws were created to maintain the status quo that were non-discriminatory on their face. EG literacy tests. This not only targeted blacks who were denied an education. Administering such tests was fully in the hands of local elites. They could be made arbitrarily hard to black people, while politically reliable white illiterates could be excused.

[-] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

In addition to the bullshit “count the number of bubbles in this bar of soap” tests, the IDs required to vote are not free, making this a form of poll tax, which is illegal in the United States.

[-] zebidiah@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

We have it in Canada too, and it's generally not a big deal... But that's likely because both our governments are doing it in good faith to ensure who shows up is the actual person on that voter card

The problem with the US is that they do not operate in good faith and use voter id laws to target people they do not want to vote, it's the same bullshit as putting a single polling station in minority districts with 10+ hr wait times (and criminal penalties of you give someone standing in line a bottle of water) and plenty of polling stations throughout the suburbs where you can be in and out in under 5 minutes.

It's not really about the id, it's about "fuck you"

this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2026
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