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What's some really unpopular opinion you have?
(lemmings.world)
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this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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My unpopular opinion is that too many people give way, waaaaaayyy too much attention to "correct use of gender pronouns" and they should all just stfu.
I understand why that is a big deal for trans people, because they make their gender the defining aspect of their character. Something I consider a mistake, nobody's main defining characteristic should be their gender.
The vast majority of cishet people (if not all) make their gender the defining aspect of their character - so why should trans people be any different?
I already said it
But it already is, isn't it?
So if this...
...is what you really want you need to start with cis people and not transgender ones, correct?
Is it what?
Dunno about you, but nobody I deal with in RL ever implied something among the lines of "refer to me as ". There was only one case of an ex-boss of mine who always liked to "joke": "you can mistake my name, but never mistake my gender!", but he was the exception
Most likely because they'd never experienced someone referring to them by the wrong gender. You can be pretty sure that if someone started doing so, they'd have something to say about it.
Which is what the other commenter was trying to communicate to you. Gender is already a key component of most cis people's personality - the way they think about themselves, the framework they use to make choices, and the way they want people to relate to them - but it's not noticed as such, because it's "normal", so no-one comments on it and they don't have to act to assert it.
I worked with a guy who complained about the company allowing employees to put their preferred pronouns in their email signatures. He said that while he was an "ally to the LGBTQ community", he thought pronouns were a way to create further division.
So I started using she/her while referring to the guy in emails.
He didn't like it. And he didn't understand the irony of demanding that I stop. He also didn't understand the irony when HR told him that the easiest way to fix his issue was to declare his preferred pronouns.
Long story short, I still get to refer to her as she/her.
Ever met somebody with a preferred name? Maybe Mike instead of Michael?
I'm sure some people have made the mistake you are describing, but I doubt it's only trans people who have made this mistake.
As a trans person, I would like to make my gender an aspect of my character, like most people get to do. I am more than just my gender, but my gender is a part of who I am.
It does feel good to be validated about my gender, but I'm not worried about people getting my pronouns wrong. I know it can be confusing and people don't mean anything by it if they make a mistake. It's hard to describe the intensity of the joy I felt once, when I was validated about my gender by another person. So, I will say it doesn't surprise me if some people decide to express their gender a lot once they are finally able to.
I know, I thought about mentioning the typical male red pill idiot who has to remind everyone he's totally hetero every 5 minutes, as they're what my mind thought about as a comparison, but I thought that'd be in bad taste.
I guess you're right that that's unpopular.
But let me put this metaphor out there--if someone shows up in the ER and their leg is badly broken and there's blood everywhere and the bone is sticking out, it is logical to triage that and take care of it first. But if lesser injuries are being taken care of instead, it's logical and appropriate to raise a fuss. The person fussing about their broken leg isn't really making it their entire personality no matter how strident and loud they are--they are simply in urgent pain and need the problem attended to.
Given plenty of trans folks end up suicidal, which is the mental health equivalent of a major physical injury, it's logical and appropriate to try to shed light on what's happening so it can be corrected. That can seem like the community is being "loud" or that an individual is "making gender their core characteristic". But it's more that that is the thing that is currently hurting, so it moves people to try to stop the hurt. Once things have evened out, there's less need to be loud about it, and it will naturally fall into place as a background aspect, like any other facet of a person.
This is generally the case when ANY minority is "making a fuss"--it's happening because there's pain that needs to be attended to. A wound that needs healing.
I've seen more than one "well meaning" person online get upset about how this or that minority is being loud with a tone they don't like.
The thing is--if a person is in pain, they're not necessarily in a mental spot to perfectly frame their arguments just for you, in exactly the tone you need to be able to hear them. Someone in pain can be pretty harsh and mean-sounding, and it's important to recognize the times when YOU are unburdened by that pain and thus have an easier time of being "logical" than the other person who is currently crying out in pain and sounds "harsh".
Basically: have mercy on other people, and understand some harsh things they say because they are in pain, and that you, too, would probably have your discipline fail at some point if you went through something just as harsh.
It makes sense, but I feel like complaining about gender pronouns specifically is more akin to whining loudly about a small finger cut, while the leg is still broken.
I understand that they go through hell, as the majority lose any sort of social safety net: friends and family, and are generally shunned upon by society at large. That shouldn't happen and I understand that the problem is cultural first and foremost, people hate being told their worldview, the stuff they learned, is wrong.
Still, your insight was something I didn't take into account. For that, I thank you. Maybe this is also the only fight they have the power to fight. Small and maybe even petty, but that's all that's within their reach.
I think you’re close to understanding WHY then the trans community is such a stickler about pronouns
Let me give you an example that may further close the understanding loop for you.
I moved from US to Scandinavia. This place, despite being always described as heaven for the queer community … is, on the surface, entirely devoid of them. You hardly ever notice. There is hardly ever any discussion, politics, or fuss. You struggle to spot queer couples on the street. There just isn’t a loud community shouting about queer and trans issues on the street. When you spot queer or trans folks they are just people doing their daily life.
Why? Because they are not under attack. When a community is being attacked it becomes tighter, builds rituals and ways of living that identifies members of the group. It becomes louder and with a uniform voice on the political scene. Because the coordination and loudness is necessary for their political goals- of not being attacked.
(I guess groups not on the defensive but on the offensive would do the same. I guess you have to look at the goals to understand which is which.)
But here’s my point - in conditions where the trans community is treated with respect, they again become free to NOT make their life about bathrooms and pronouns.
And thus - I argue pronouns are such a hot topic because trans folks are being deliberately misgendred as an attack by their political opponents.
I've been told that gender is like a suit: if it fits you, you barely even notice it, but if it doesn't fit you, it will bother you constantly until you do something about it.
Gender pronouns exist mostly because our society ties so many societal norms to gender. If people weren't sexist animals, it wouldn't really be a problem.
Good luck with languages where nearly everything, even inanimate objects, have an assigned gender as well.
We can add the people who have their sexuality as their only character trait and need everyone to know.
I don't need to know that you are lgbtqi+. If you want to tell me that you have a partner and they happen to be the same gender or such then good on you for finding someone to love. Fucking amazing how the world works and you went against the odds and all that.
However.
I don't need you to remind me that you are pan every 15 minutes.
Oh wow, your first paragraph will certainly get you in trouble in certain circles - but, more importantly, your second paragraph is as excellent a defusal as I've ever seen.
Pronouns should only be considered in the academic field as pronouns will never come up in regular conversation. Even if it does, the ambiguous "they" should be accepted as it's a non-gendered term.