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submitted 10 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Nearly a third of Americans – 30% – say people may have to resort to violence in order to get the country back on track, according to the latest PBS News/NPR/Marist poll.

It’s a sharp rise from 18 months ago, when 19% of Americans said the same.

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[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 85 points 10 months ago

Gee, almost as if Russian propaganda is working.

Before the Civil War one politician opined that if a war started you'd be able to mop up all the blood spilled with one handkerchief.

Anyone who thinks a new fight will be any easier has probably never been in a real fight.

[-] rozodru@piefed.social 67 points 10 months ago

I don't think people realize that if a new US civil war kicked off the lines wouldn't be as clear as north vs south. this would be state vs state, city vs city, neighbor vs neighbor. you could draw lines in your god damn sub division/street.

And if it were alliances between states it would be a god damn logistical nightmare. Imagine California being allied with New York for example. or Hell Minnesota being allied with like Arizona or whatever. how do you move supplies, troops, and what have you between allied states when you got a shit ton of hostiles between the two.

Add to the fact that unlike the first civil war you now have US military bases all over the world. what happens when you got folks within the SAME base in the middle of Germany that suddenly don't "agree" with each other?

Cluster fuck is an understatement.

[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago

There'd also be a shit-ton of drone warfare. Thousands will die without ever seeing their killers face. It's also entirely possible AI will be bombing people and you'll basically be killed by an algorithm.

[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Lets also not forget cyberwarfare, ranging from external to internal sources, ranging from doxxing people to invented news events with AI gen/manipulated images/audio/video, all the way up to knocking out public infrastructure, locking down hardware of local gov / businesses / banks with ransomware, etc.

Random, unofficial people are capable of either most or all of that.

Oh and of course if shit really kicks off, other countries will probably do the CIA's signature move of funding arming and training various groups of people.

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 21 points 10 months ago

I saw one dream map where Canada drops two tentacles; one reaches down through the West all the way to San Diego, and the Eastern one reaches just north of Washington.

Humor aside, I agree with your take. A war of assassins and terrorists on both sides.

I'll add one more note. Back in the day, the Irish Republican Army was the most feared underground in the world. They only had a handful of soldiers, but a superb organization. If a shooter was supposed to kill someone in Geneva, he'd have three or four cars waiting when he got to the airport, and each driver would know five places the shooter could stay. He'd have a choice of getaway drivers and extra safe houses and docotrs on tap.

[-] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago

How do you still manage that in the current (and worsening) surveillance state? I mean Luigi showed its possible for a lone wolf but I have to question being able to organize without being known. If you are caught organizing an antifa org then you're also uber boned.

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 5 points 10 months ago

My point was that the next war won't look anything like the last one.

Anyone who thinks that some molotov cocktails they made is going to bring down the system has another think coming.

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[-] bufalo1973@piefed.social 3 points 10 months ago

I can think of a funnier map: Canada taking NY, Washington DC, ... and Mexico (re)taking the west coast. Imagine if Texas ended up being again part of Mexico.

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

It's also why we need to avoid violence and make the regime stumble into itself.

Which is why Chinese and Russia propaganda is attempting to stoke the fire (remember, they eliminated their opposition, so they don't have the same experience inciting violence and they think they do).

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 9 points 10 months ago

It's also why we need to avoid violence and make the regime stumble into itself.

Here's the thing: It's not going to fucking do that; it's going to stumble into fascism. Fascism is stupid and incompetent, but it absolutely does not and will not fizzle out without a resistance as committed as the fascists themselves. I mean, which fascist movement in history "stumbled into itself?"

[-] noxypaws@pawb.social 3 points 10 months ago

avoid violence

implying there has ever not been violence or that the current amount of violence by right wingers and the US government isn't already, currently, right this fucking second even worse than before Trump's first term

nonviolent resistance is an important front but it alone won't be enough, I fear.

[-] Steve@startrek.website 5 points 10 months ago

Its going to be more like the people vs the federal gov.

[-] burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 10 months ago

If you think this, you should talk to your average republican voter. They will suck that orange cock until every bit of their wealth and ability to afford food is gone, and blame whoever fox news points a finger at that day.

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

This is why the techniques pioneered by the native americans, and taught to colonial rebels by their experience fighting with them, would be the most likely path.

What is that, you ask? Guerilla warfare. It's why we were able to defeat the most powerful colonial empire since the Romans.

We had the same conditions you described, a good chunk of people who still considered themselve British were mixed in with those who sought freedom.

[-] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Hard to hide from a drone.

[-] Hawke@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

or Hell Minnesota being allied with like Arizona or whatever.

Isn’t Hell in Michigan?

[-] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 3 points 10 months ago

It would be a clusterfuck. Especially since the type of violence some have advocated for recently is more akin to political assassination. We need to push back on the false equivalence of "person X says stuff I don't agree with about perceived identities, therefore that speech 'unpersons' me, therefore it's tantamount to a death threat, therefore actual violence against that person is justified." You can literally find examples in these comments here.

If you have thousands of lonewolves each deciding unilaterally to assassinate (insert political opponent or public figure here) based on their own subjective perceptions, that no longer resembles a civil war, it more resembles a free-for-all hellscape.

I'd suggest a more useful concept is to form strong local communities committed to their own well being, mutual aid, and defense. Whatever that looks like for you in your area. Your mileage may vary. This is not legal advice.

[-] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago

There may have to be a free-for-all hellscape phase before getting to an organized something-better phase in the hit video game super mushyroom kingdom.

[-] DaMummy@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

So which hashtag would you use to end slavery?

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 7 points 10 months ago

Let's turn it around.

I say violence won't work.

Please explain in detail how you see the conflict going. I mean, I'm certain that the same people who couldn't get past the DNC to get Bernie nominated will have no problem facing off against "military contractors" hired by the billionaire class.

Details, please.

[-] jwiggler@sh.itjust.works 28 points 10 months ago

I mean, I dread whatever violence is upcoming. But the reality is liberation has never happened with solely nonviolent means. Even King and Ghandi were buttressed by groups that used a variety of tactics, including violence, to force the state to come to the table with them.

This isn't to advocate indiscriminate or senseless violence, but if your resistance group is nonviolent, and condemn any violence by other resistance groups, they have severely limited the range of tactics acceptable for use, and cede the power of justified violence to those in power only.

There's a good book called "How Nonviolence Protects the State" that goes into depth on this, you should check it out.

[-] bufalo1973@piefed.social 2 points 10 months ago

In the end is a "good cop, bad cop" situation.

[-] TheEntity@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

I'm pretty sure we all agree that violence is a bad solution. The problem is we're all out of good ones. What are the alternatives at this point?

[-] Eldritch@piefed.world 3 points 10 months ago

Society upholding its part of the social bargain. Making these people feel afraid to express such opinions anymore. Without that long term, even physical violence will only buy temporary change. These people will always return if given the opportunity. And for generations Americans have been taught to tolerate intolerance.

[-] TheEntity@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I don't see how we would make them afraid without any implied threat of violence though. Apart from that, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

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[-] DaMummy@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

So what did Occupy Wall Street accomplish? What about the March for our Lives protests? What about the BLM riots? What did Bernie Sanders winning every single county in the 2016 WV Democrat Primary accomplish?

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[-] Triumph@fedia.io 7 points 10 months ago

Violence works, otherwise there wouldn't be any. We've put up a whole system of laws and police and investigators and courts and prisons in order to provide an alternative to violence. And even then, that system is itself backed up with a real threat of violence as well as its occasional localized deployment.

Yesterday's "pep rally" where none of the military leaders dragged in had anything good to say about it suggests that there is not the overwhelming military support that Trump wants there to be. There are plenty of examples of far less powerful local forces successfully standing up to superpowers. Afghanistan is one. Wallachia is another.

When the entire federal government and many state governments have wholly abandoned the systems put together to avoid violence, and are in fact using the husks of those systems to apply violence to their opponents, we've already crossed the Rubicon.

[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago

I would like to throw in that Vietnam managed to not only win a war against the US/French/Australians... but to also win a war against China, after the US left Vietnam.

Basically, after the US and allies left Vietnam, Vietnam invaded Cambodia to put a stop to Pol Pot's monstrous Khmer Rouge regime... and then China invaded Vietnam in response.

Vietnam repulsed them.

Despite being somewhere between considerably to vastly outnumbered, and fighting on multiple fronts.

The lesson of this story is do not fuck with the Viet Cong.

Say what you will about their version of 'communism' as a societal model, but holy shit does modern Vietnam have an insane military track record, with basically all its roots in guerilla warfare.

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[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Hi, my name is ICE, off to a death camp for you, according to me and my paramilitary goon squad who broke into your house/apartment at 3 am.

Don't bother arguing, that's what the gag and spit hood are for.

Violence is already here.

Thoughts and prayers are not an effective defense.

I would suggest either hiding, very, very well, which is probably impossible for most social media addicts who've publicized half of their existence, and for morons who think that their VPN isn't keeping logs that can all be subpoenaed by the government...

Or maybe some kind of actual local community organizing, involving you know, actually speaking with your neighbors in meatspace, getting to know them, forming at bare minimum a plan for how to deal with say, food shortage, brown out/black out, etc.

[-] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 4 points 10 months ago

And what's the plan?

Going to start shooting Federal officers in the street?

Here's what happens; Federal government shuts down the power to the whole city. Mobilizes the National Guard. Brings in overseas 'military contractors' like after Katrina.

Meanwhile, the 0.001% is at its beach house on Bali.

[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That all happens if you do nothing as well.

Infact it literally already is happening, half of what you describe as a potential reaction.

I am not going to give you the plan on an unsecured, publically accessible communication platform, you are a moron for asking for that.

I, personally, am crippled, and plan to do nothing and remain as close to an unthreatening digital ghost as possible.

That might, might actually work for me, because I am white, and have never registered as any kind of party affiliated voter, have never given my biometric data to any company or device for any reason, haven't been on an air flight in 20 years, don't have any social presence beyond this here psuedonomyous account.

Maybe you could start your plan with learning some basic opsec.

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago

Everything is Russia's fault, got it.

this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2025
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