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this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2025
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No. Hearing and understanding opinions with which we disagree is part of being a functional adult.
If we end up having a situation where they spam with hate speech etc, that's different but just being conservative? I'd like to hear what they have to say.
John Stuart Mills put it better than I can:
The quote from Mills assumes the "other side" has reasons, or is willing to argue in good faith.
I have no problem with conservative communities. MAGA isn't just a conservative community, it's a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
I'm so bored of this "but we need to listen to the opposing view" bullshit. We know what the maga fascists think, we will learn nothing new by putting up with their crap.
100% this.
It's like giving nazi's and child rapists a voice on Lemmy. In fact MAGA is JUST like that.
Something something Venn circle something something
And we've seen two times what listening to maga and giving people like that a platform to discuss results in. Trump being elected twice and maybe a third in the future.
We have actual real world events of how ineffective it is with networks giving Trump huge coverage when he first appeared.
Yep. That titanic has sailed.
I don't think in our context the point would be to seriously consider the other side. Rather to hear what they're on about at the moment purely informatively. But if most don't want that the rest could use alts to check on the crazies.
You know, they say much the same about us.
Almost like the way to resolve the situation is actual dialogue rather than just seeing the worst of each side getting thrown up on social media.
For every asshole in MAGA gear that we take as a fair representation of the group, there's some kid talking about how the only good MAGA person is six feet under and making it look like everyone on the Left is ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them.
I've had actual dialogue. For real. Many times, over many years, with many of them.
After you've had enough conversations with them, you start to realize that they're not interested in good-faith discussion. If they were, they wouldn't be part of the cult. Or in other words, anyone who was interested in good-faith discussion has already left.
I'm not using hyperbole or exaggerating. Any person still wearing the red hat is not interested in anything you have to say. If you want proof, ask anyone from MAGA: "What would it take to change your mind?" I've asked this question dozens of times, and I've only gotten two answers: "nothing", and nothing.
It's good to have the general approach of wanting to hear the opinions of others. But like anything, too much of a good thing can become a bad thing. In this case, the MAGA folks will take advantage of your willingness to platform them, and trample all over you for it. In this case, "hearing both sides" isn't helping them or you. They've made their positions very clear, and they won't be swayed. There's realistically nothing they could tell me to sway my position either, because there's nothing that could override the evidence from the man himself. It's a useless standoff.
I get wanting to offer the olive branch and resolve things through civil discussion, but realistically there are some cases where that approach hurts more than it helps.
It doesn't mean we have to resort to violent rhetoric or immaturity (though I understand where those people are coming from too), it means we need to approach MAGA for what it is: a cult. Trying to help someone leave a cult is very different from having a discussion about politics. There are some effective ways to help someone leave a cult, but online cross-community friction isn't that--it's only going to get people more divided.
Ironically, sometimes it's less divisive to simply defederate.
Why should anyone be forced to listen to Nazi bullshit. Fuck magats. Nazis have only one place in the world, 6 feet under.
You know they're just going to ban anyone who goes in there, that isn't MAGA, right?
I dunno, a quick look through the admin seemed like they were open to stuff with which they disagree. (Looks like one of us was already there trolling and the admin seems to have responded in good faith.)
Mills didn't live through fucking First and Second World War.
Popper, Karl R. The Open Society and Its Enemies: Volume 1, The Spell of Plato. Routledge, 1945
Allowing people to hear different opinions is not unlimited tolerance.
Allowing a MAGA forum to coexist here isn't simply allowing "differing opinions" - their "opinion" is known, and it invariably moves us up the rungs on the ladder toward genocide. I say this as someone whose own parents are in the MAGA cult: defederate. Don't allow that ideology to fester in your community. Have individual discussions with the people in your own life to pull them back from the brink, if you feel safe doing so, but don't allow that growth in the petri dish that is your collective, or you will wake up with an infection. Set boundaries or get taken over.
Is that the only thing you can rebut out of all of that?
MAGA and “just conservative” are not the same.
Self-labeling as MAGA is denoting full cult of personality and fealty to Trump. Add the online-ness element, plus the small size of Lemmy in general, and you’re concentrating that presence into a toxic sludge that seeps into the rest of the fediverse a la 4chan/Xhitter trolls.
“MAGA” is not going to change their minds on anything, nor are they looking to meaningfully change ours. MAGA does not argue in good faith, or based on rationality or policy. Red-hatters enter non-red-hat spaces for the purposes of intimidation, feeling superior, and sowing discord. Then they pat each other on the back for “owning the libs” and continue the cycle.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to federate with relentless trolling and become a Nazi bar by means of association.
Declaring what they'll do before they've done it is pretty silly. Sure, if that instance starts becoming a problem, defederate. But maybe we can hope for the best first?
I respect your point, but 10 years into MAGA's relentlessly obnoxious online behaviour it seems a little naïve to think it's at all likely to go differently there.
No real harm in trying.
Otherwise, yay, we're just in our own obnoxious echo chamber being angry that people don't agree with us instead of talking with those whom we need to persuade.
I was going to say something about wanting to avoid echo chambers and then... I read the post history from the admin over there. sighs
I think it's appropriate to defederate. Doing so doesn't stop their admin, or anyone else, from creating an account on any other instance. Play by the rules of civility in the fediverse and no worries. If they can't, then it will be dealt with via bans.
If they want a maga island to themselves, then so be it.
I took a glance at their post history, didn't see anything too horrific or hate filled. I strongly disagree with their stances on immigration etc but at a glance, didn't see anything terrifying.
The question isn't about banning a user but of defederating an instance. If that particular admin wants to participate elsewhere, there's no reason why they can't so long as they can abide by the rules.
American conservatives arent good faith debaters.
And they feel much the same way about us. Almost like the only way to resolve the differences is, I dunno, discussion.
Yeah it worked out so well for America that they elected Trump twice and his style of politics has become more popular. But, I'm sure you can do what a nation and the people opposing him failed to do of changing minds through discussion.
How about starting with something easy first like convincing antivaxers to change their minds.
That doesn't work on the internet. Without face-to-face interaction the ability to empathize with the other side is lost. We're NPCs, just random encounters in the posting RPG. I'm someone that deserves to die and there's literally nothing I can say or do that would change their minds, they just want to collect my posts for their cringe compilations and bully me until I kill myself.
Debating someones right to live isnt a discussion.
Or maybe not engage with a million rage bots on Reddit before you have a chance to process news in a healthy way. I think it disables their emotional regulation.
Hell, just not engaging with social media would probably be the correct call for all sides.
This stuff is destroying our ability as a people to handle anything.
The 1990’s called and want to know if you’ll be a guest on Rush Limbaugh. You won’t actually get to say anything, so no pressure.
Sure. Any chance to get his audience to hear an alternative version. The number of conservatives with whom I chat in real life who have just never heard of various things kind of blows me away. My good buddy was on the "yeah but the Left is more violent" train, we talked about it, I showed him things he hadn't seen and vice versa. We both learned, grew and revised our opinions.
Same thing could happen for Rush's audience.
You’re expecting good faith then. Like talking with a good buddy.
No, I'm just confident in the power of reality and facts. It's why I admire Pete Buttigieg for going on and making the Liberal case on Fox news. We're not converting anyone who disagrees with us here.
You know we just elected a 34-time fraud convict and adjudicated rapist to the Presidency here, right? Reality and facts weren’t even in the news for the last two years.
But hey - good luck!
Exactly the point. When things are so bad half the country is willing to say "yeah, but we trust him more than the fucking Left" something is seriously wrong.
If we don't work to figure out how to win folks over, things are going to get much much worse.
My life will be fine kind of regardless but I worry for others.
The downvotes here are stupid. I have a conservative friend and we always ask each other questions about why each side feels one way or another. It is a good way to find common ground. It is also a good way to understand what is going on.
Is your conservative friend part of a hate cult?
MAGA is a hate cult, so yes. I still am interested in his opinion. He is interested in mine. We both think Kirk was a hit to distract from Epstein files. The GOP voted against the release that day. We both also disagree with funding for Israel, but for different reasons. We both are upset that Epstein files have been hidden. He has pretty much turned on Trump because of it.
We are also both really tired of establishment politicians being bought constantly. I dislike most dems now. Especially ones like Pelosi or Shumer. My frind complains about RINOs. You can find common ground.
The difference is my friend is a real person and not a bot. Those conservative forums are filled with rage bots that disable people's emotional regulation and incite violence. That's one thing I hope we can keep away. I think liberal rage bots exists too, though.