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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2025
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"Please kill people to make the fascists look bad!"
Don't let the demagogues in charge of both parties and the complicit billionaire owned media fool you. A shutdown WILL lead to some of the people who depend on the government for survival dying. That's inevitable.
Whether whatever the fascists propose will be worse and lead to even MORE death and misery is unknown (although infuriatingly likely) at this time, but there's no doubt that a shutdown would be horrible, so maybe don't wish that on your fellow humans either..
You know what? Fuck it. It's not about making them look bad, it's about fixing these goddamned problems and standing up for what's right.
Stop giving in to these pieces of shit.
And if we have to burn it all down? Fucking GOOD. It NEEDS to be.
I'm so fed up with the state of things and all this cowardice. Some people are going to die no matter what. That's terrible. But giving in to Nazi fucking terrorists every time we get threatened?
STOP IT.
Which playing their game and shutting down the government doesn't do. Never has, never will.
I didn't suggest anything of the sort, nor would I ever.
Tell that to the families of all the people who would die so you can "send a message" that the fascists won't listen to.
Same.
Big Joni Ernst energy 🙄
Oh really? I had no idea!
Again, I suggested no such thing, nor would I ever. The notion that you have to either reward the fascists by giving into their demands or give them q shutdown to use against you is a textbook false dichotomy and claiming that I'm advocating for either is a textbook strawman argument.
Right back at you, chief.
So what's all this stuff from you about not liking Schumer then? It boggles my mind that you can hold such opposing takes at the same time. Republicans do not want a shutdown. Otherwise they would have shutdown the government since they have the votes to do it. Therefore it is leverage.
Not standing up to the fascists with the government shutdown is going to get some people killed now and then all of us killed later.
You're doing it right now. It's not a strawman or a false dichotomy, Democrats have one lever to pull as the minority party and it's the government shutdown.
STOP IT. What the actual fuck is going on? Stop kissing fascist ass. The opportunity to stop these deaths was in the 2024 election. Did you think there was a way to passively resist fascism meaningfully without people dying? We either stand up and fight or don't. Either way the fascists try to kill us now or later. There isn't a point later when suddenly the fascists are gone without any form of meaningful, impactful, useful resistance. edit: typos
Again with the false dichotomy. I can be against allowing a shutdown and against appeasing the fascists at the same time. Those two are NOT the only options are pretending otherwise is playing into the hands of fascists and other demagogues such as Schumer.
Some ABSOLUTELY do.
Again, they're not unanimous. The Freedumb Caucus and other factions always defect at first.
Again, tell that to the people who might survive if a third option is accomplished.
For fuck's sake! Repeating your ridiculous false dichotomy a dozen times doesn't make it any less false!
Nope. You're either arguing in bad faith or not comprehending what I'm saying due to your ingrained black and white thinking.
That's what they all say while building a strawman to fit their false dichotomy 🙄
Nope. There's other options, if only they care to find them.
Again, right back at you. You're being aggressively obtuse and it's not achieving anything.
Never have, never will. I'd tell you to stop with the absurd strawman, but it's clear that you're neither willing to nor capable of such clarity of thought.
If they can't do anything while in the minority, why show up to work at all? Why do we keep paying them if they're literally powerless and thus useless?
The answer is that they're NOT anywhere near as powerless as you and they pretend. They have ways of subverting or at least delaying the whole absurd procedure if they're willing to.
Anyway, I've said what needs to be said and you've made it abundantly clear that you're not going to understand it no matter how many times I repeat myself and/or rephrase things, so we're done here. Have the day you deserve.
No you cannot and still be providing a logically consistent argument. Those positions are mutually exclusive.
There are no mechanisms in the Constitution for the minority party to enact meaningful change or to obstruct that do not involve shutting down the government.
What are the other options?
They are a tiny minority that does not include Trump.
They defect in favor of a shutdown.
What third option?
Exactly. Hence a government shutdown.
Yes. With a government shutdown.
Open your windows. You may have carbon monoxide poisoning.
You're literally doing what you are accusing me of doing with all that nonsense I didn't quote. Like a Republican. It's a blatantly clear cut situation. If you have a third option to this situation speak up! Say what that third option is. That's how it's obvious you're the one arguing in bad faith here or have carbon monoxide poisoning. edit: typo
If you knew a third option you could have listed it!
How is it even a question that fascists are going to be worse than a government shutdown? If they cut spending it's going to mean some people permanently losing government assistant. Why is it acceptable to allow some people to die?
The government is the only tool Democrats have to prevent more spending cuts. If Republicans wanted to use a government shutdown to deny benefits to people, they would have done it, as they have the votes. Republicans do not want a shutdown because they know it will make them look bad. So that's the leverage Democrats can use to prevent more death.
Because the parts of the government exempted just so happens to be the only parts that the fascists always want to fund.
I'm not saying that it's impossible or even unlikely that their proposals are going to be even worse, I'm just saying that we know for a fact that a shutdown would kill people and we don't yet know whether whatever awful proposal the fascists are going to spew is going to kill even MORE people.
That's what I'M asking!
Yes and no: massive fundamental reform of the government into something befitting today's society is needed to achieve that goal.
None of the Dem leadership is advocating for anything of the sort. On the contrary, they're trying their hardest to roll back everything to how it was in 1992.
They HAVE done it. Several times. That's why they came up with this whole farce to begin with.
Not necessarily, no. The Freedumb Caucus usually holds the whole thing hostage to make whatever abomination the leadership suggests even WORSE.
Some do, some don't. Some consider it a win/win either way. Which it is if your goal is to score political points by hurting the most vulnerable people. Which is the majority of their raison d'être.
No they don't. For all their awfulness, they're MUCH better at political messaging/gaslighting than the Dems are, partly because of their shamelessness and enthusiastic embrace of tactical hypocrisy.
Whether the government shuts down or not, they can convince their base that they're doing everything right and the Dems are doing everything wrong.
..are you new? 99% of the times that the Dem leadership ever uses what leverage they have effectively, it's to benefit their owner donors, not regular people who need it the most.
So? The Democrats don't have the power to do anything about that so it isn't relevant.
So you're ok with some people dying.
No you're trying to justify killing a few of us now, so the rest of us can wait out fascism.
This is laughably unattainable with the current Congress. We'll need to flip the Supreme Court with multiple consecutive presidential elections to even be able to start taking swings at that. We're never getting there if Democrats vote for Republican spending cuts with each continuing resolution.
Not in 2025 with this presidential administration and Congress. Which are the only ones that are relevant to this discussion.
They definitely do. They could all not vote on a bill if their goal was a government shutdown. They have the majority in both houses. And Trump could veto any bill if he wanted. edit: typo
Yeah, the majority that align with Trump on everything as often as humanly possible.
Then why not shut it down.
Sounds like they've got everything they need either way. If they're so good at spinning why not shut it down. Because people are turning against them in town halls all across the country. They know there are limits to what even they can get away with. That's why they delayed portions of the 'Big Beautiful Bill' until after the midterms.
What is going on here? I brought up that Schumer is never going to allow a government shutdown. You're trying to argue that we're risking lives by doing a shutdown when that's what you're arguing for by arguing against a shutdown. I'm surprised you don't like Schumer since he's doing exactly what you think is best. If I didn't know better I would say you were trolling. But I've never seen a troll hold mutually exclusive positions in their heads let alone post them in the same comment before. If you know Schumer is bad for not doing a shutdown why do you also think shutdowns are bad? Surely either Schumer is correct and at least somewhat good for opposing a shutdown or bad for opposing it.
Is the ventilation in your building okay? Carbon monoxide poisoning is no joke.
I found Chuck Schumer’s secret Lemmy account!