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this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2025
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CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn't be any surprise they're selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I'm immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren't subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don't know what you're talking about, and "everyone's a tankie" for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
You should learn about US fossil fuel subsidies. The US alone pumps almost 800 billion/yr into subsidising the industry. Total subsidies worldwide are around 7 trillion/yr.
China tossing 40 Billion/yr into EV/battery subsidies is basically pocket change.
I have no interest in a pissing match over which country is the worst in the world, I am discussing why China is dominating the EV market in Europe.
China spending 1/20 of what the US does to subsidize cars isn't relevant? Sure thing buddy.
The whole point of all of these "china is only dominating in EV sales due to subsidies" comments is to throw shade on China's impressive progress in clean tech. A contrast of their subsidies vs other countries in the same space, motor vehicles, is entirely relevant.
US fossil fuel subsidies are relevant to China dominating the electric vehicle market in Europe? Sure thing buddy.
I believe main goal of China investing in green tech is to show middle finger to oil and gas producers. China has virtually none of both oil and gas and so is reliant on import. With mostly green cars and electricity from water, sun and wind, they will have much, much better leverage in global say.
They are not, actually very far from it. VW group is. China market share was very tiny, and is now growing. And Tesla has collapsed. So Byd has surpassed Tesla now.
But the big winners are mostly European, and then Hyundai/KIA, and now Toyota has finally made a good BEV, so they will increase their BEV marketshare too of course.
Was gonna say this as well. The Asian brands that have dominated the eu markets still do so. Vw as well, even after their eco blue debacle.
Doesn't the EU balance it out with tariffs?
Those cheap BYDs ain't all that cheap here
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc... We could really have something great.
No.
Yes they are.
Truth there.
Hmm
Also my friend in the middle east was excited for the BYD Dolphin (I think) for its price and it was... Nearly twice as much here when I looked it up?
BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.
No one is denying that the tariffs exist. I'm denying that it "balances out". BYD is still way cheaper than comparable EVs.
Mercedes, Audi, etc. are established several decade old prestigious brands that don't need rock bottom prices to gain market share.
BYDs don't "seem" cheap. They are cheap.
Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD's own high end models are expensive too. They don't sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.
No they're not. They're cheap because they're subsidized.
But they're not cheap after the tariffs. Yes, cheaper than German luxury cars, but not cheaper than comparable cars.
Yes they are, but in this case you are just wrong. I guarantee you I'm not a tankie, but I think it's pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.
All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let's put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US (the discussion was about Europe), and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China's greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don't give a fuck about the climate, they're just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Chinese carbon emissions may have peaked this year and they’ve deployed more renewables than the rest of the world combined.
That's because they're also heavily subsidizing that industry out of self-interest. That's the "emerging markets" I mentioned above.
They are subsiding the deployment of clean energy sources?
Good for them. And good for the world.
Which sounds like a good idea for everybody. Maybe other countries should do the same thing.
I’m no fan of West Taiwan but they’re doing a lot more to decarbonize than most other major economies.
Like always, it's a great idea, right up until China jacks up the prices after they've driven out all the competition and common people can't buy them anymore.
Then maybe western companies can finally compete with them despite being ruled by obligate capitalists.
Oh no, a country acts out of self-interest! A concept that is completely foreign to the West 😱 At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result. What are the coeffects of the US defending their self-interests? Rise in facism? Another genocide?
You're moving the goalposts. You were literally thanking Xi for "saving the climate".
Once again, I am not having a pissing match about which country is better, I am discussing the success of electric vehicles from China.
As always - well under what USA is putting into the atmosphere. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita
Maybe YOU should give another look at those figures.
Specially the ones relative to the % of new renewables put into production during the last years.
Also it's much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
Corporations are not as self-sufficient as they claim to be.
“In Europe”
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/07/29/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-world-except-china-in-ev-adoption/ 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.
European brands doing well. I don't know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.
Most of my car friends won't touch an EV still here in the UK because the infrastructure isn't good enough, and those same friends won't touch a Chinese car either. Only a few have tried Tesla and all have got rid. Currently in the UK if you are a company car person you'd be mad not to get an EV as they are subsidised so much, but equally mad to get one as your only personal car as the charging network is shocking still. When here it is MORE expensive to charge an EV whilst out and about than fuel a petrol car something is seriously wrong