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this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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Well might be ok with you, but I think the average woman has more respect for herself than doing porn shoots and I certainly wouldn't date someone who didn't have a higher standard than that. All those girls doing Only Fans are finding out the hard way that it comes back to bite you in the long run.
Sex work is real work. It takes no less respect for oneself to do sex work than it does to do any other work. The only reason it "comes back to bite" people is because society still stigmatises sex workers.
And WHY does society stigmatize sex workers? Because its degrading to women, its manipulative, and its generally used by men who USE people for their own gratification which is completely disrespectful. NO women (or man) ever grew up as a child thinking "I sure hope I can be a sex worker some day" because its a job of last resort.
Nobody grew up wanting to be a sewer worker but you aren't running around the internet saying they're lacking self respect
Are sewer workers USED (and often abused) by other people for their own pleasure when they do their work? Completely different scenario.
The only people who think sex work is fine are those who dont do it and havent talked in depth to someone who has. I spent five years on the street making friends with girls and boys who did it to survive. There is NOTHING good about it. NOTHING. Its degrading, its soul crushing. Its VERY often accompanied by physical or psychological abuse which is why sex workers kept 'bad date' lists to warn other workers of the really creepy guys. Its a horrible way to make money but they did it because they didnt have any other way to survive. Next time you have rose colored glasses on about sex work, give me a call and Ill put you in touch with a 12 yr old girl who was pimped out by her 16 yr old sister and you can have a long discussion about the joys of sex work. Or with a 16 yr old boy who ran away from home and ended up getting sodomized by a man in a park because he needed 40 bucks to get a meal. Its really glamorous stuff, everyone loves it.
And you think these issues are limited to sex work? You don't think office workers are used and abused by c-suite?
I have friends who do sex work, but you're free to lecture me all you like since you're the expert, allegedly.
Part of the massive issues in sex work is to do with poor rights and protections for sex workers, because it is stigmatised and not seen as real work. Obviously trafficking and child abuse are unacceptable but they are not inherent to the job, they are an issue in the same way child labour is in many other fields. There are simply more protections in place in other fields to prevent it from happening as much.
🙏🏻
Ive never had my boss come into my office and ask me to get naked so he can sodomize me, no. Is that a common occurrence at most office jobs?
Talk to cops and lawmakers. They dont want sex work legitimized because its connected to a ton of other crime that is also not legitimate. You cant say this part is legal and ok without creeping into those other areas too. Its all a negative effect on society just like legalizing drugs has an overall negative effect. Just because its difficult to stamp it out doesnt mean we need to legitimize it.
Disengage.
Has it ever occured to you that those abuses happen because of people's attempts to delegitimize it? Despite attempts to make it illegal or to otherwise shame those who participate in it, it hasn't ceased to exist for as long as humanity has existed. Prohibition didn't make people stop drinking alcohol, it just created more crime and unsafe scenarios. Drug use being illegal doesn't stop overdose. The fentanyl crisis is a direct result of drugs only being available from non-legitimate sources. Onlyfans has created a very safe space for sex work. It's not perfect but it is leaps and bounds better than an alternative where it is illegal.
I believe your experience that everyone you met on the streets found it to be degrading. Have you ever thought that was because of the environment that you were in? Sex work performed by homeless people usually only exists because no legal alternative exists for their clients. Also it becomes a last resort for income for desperate people and as a result can put them in not safe scenarios.
As far as it being degrading, that's also attributed to the unsafe conditions that many women and men are forced to work under. It really isn't hard to find sex workers who are proud of their life style and live happy lives due to their success in the industry. Unfortunately they are in the minority because of all of my previous points listed. Most of the negatives that you talk about are a direct result of your and others shaming, not anything that is inherently wrong or immoral with sex work itself.
No, I dont believe that anyone is trying to DE-legitimize it, because its never been legitimate. Yes, prostitution has been around for a long time, but its never been an honorable way to make money, its always been looked down on because people know inherently that selling your body for money isn't good for anyone. Its soul crushing and degrading and no matter how many 'happy' OnlyFans out there, no one WANTS to continue doing it into their later adult years. There are lots of mental gymnastics people do to try and accept all the bad choices theyve made but that doesnt make them good choices, it just helps them survive.
It's literally called "the oldest profession."
There's never been an honorable way to make money. We sell ourselves to others so that we can survive. There's nothing honorable about it. You're only OK with selling certain things and not others. Selling your health, youth, time, etc. is fine in your opinion, but selling sex isn't for some reason?
It's also not always been looked down on. You just have a short and narrow view of history. Check out the wiki page for the history of prostitution. It's wide and varied. In particular, Christians and Muslims have an issue with it. I'm assuming you think that your understanding is the understanding that has always been, and that it must be innately human because you must be correct. I'd recommend you reconsider that belief. Many people, now and in the past, disagree with you, and you shouldn't do things like voting with the intent to push your view on others.
Dear lord, have you heard of this thing called democracy? Thats EXACTLY why we vote.
No, I vote to make things better for everyone, not because I think people are going against my morals. Get out of here with that. I vote to protect people's rights to do things I don't agree with, if they don't harm anyone/anything else. No one should be voting because they want to push their morals on others. That's authoritarian.
Why do you think your morals are superior to others? You can disagree with them, and that's great. To think you should remove their freedoms because you don't want to do something is wrong. Follow your moral code. Don't force others to follow it. If you want, try to convince them. Don't use force because you're an asshole with a superiority complex. If your morals actually are better then people will agree with you without the need to pass laws restricting freedoms.
Its nice that you believe that you vote to protect OTHER people's rights, but when you are up against an issue that affects you directly, you definitely dont. If you were gay and the government wanted to bring in a bill to ban gay marriage you wouldn't vote to protect the rights of the people who have a religious objection to gay marriage, you would vote against it.
ALL morals are relative. With the argument you are giving you are LITERALLY telling me that YOUR morals are superior to mine. Guess what? They're just different and no better than mine.
We have a democratic system. Everyone votes the way they choose, majority wins. Welcome to the real world.
That's literally what legalizing it is. No one is forcing you to be gay married. You can object if you want. I'm against restricting others freedoms. That means I support legalizing gay marriage, even if I don't want to be gay married, because it allows for people to choose what thay want rather than forcing a certain belief on them. I don't know anywhere that forces gay marriage, but you're perfectly fine enforcing straight-only marriage I guess. A little hypocritical, no?
Good. You aren't a moral absolutist at least. No, I'm telling you that your morals aren't absolute and shouldn't be forced on others. Follow them yourself. If others want to, they can choose to. Forcing them on people isn't about morality; it's about authority.
We have a democratic system that explicitly says someone's beliefs shouldn't be forced in others (assuming you're in the US). We literally have in our constitution that no religion shall be enforced. Sure, we have people who want to destroy that an enact authoritarian rule, because they think their beliefs are better than others, so this might not always be true, but for now it is.
We agree on morals by majority. Everyone agrees that murder is wrong so we make laws stating that and we punish those who dont follow. Do you call that 'forcing morals on others'? No, because almost everyone agrees murder is wrong. But what about physical assault? Still bad. We make laws against that. What if its just slapping someone? Likely still harmful, so there are laws against that. What if its just spitting on their shoes? Might be assault might not be. What if its just calling them a name? Highly depends on what was said and in what context but obviously not everyone who calls someone a name is charged. What if its just giving them the finger? Not likely a charge. What if its just a sneer? Highly unlikely its chargeable offence.
My point is that we ALL decide at some point when harm is done and we make laws to support that and then we FORCE others to comply with it even if its not THEIR personal standard about whats considered harmful. Yes thats authority, thats how society works.
We sure as hell don't. I don't think something is moral or not because others agree with it or not. That'd be a pretty fucked up world if many people believed that.
No, because it's protecting other people's freedom. A murderer prevents others from having their own freedom. You can hurt yourself all you want, but not others without their consent. This isn't morality, it's (negative) freedom. It's measurable, where morality isn't.
All the other stuff you listed proves it's not about morality. Most people would agree it's immoral to do most of those acts. However, it's (usually) only illegal when it effects other people's rights. Sometimes people argue things enfringe on their rights to push morality too, like requiring certain clothing for example. The argument they make is always about rights though, not morality (though they may try to sway the public with a morality argument). For example, abortion. It wasn't made illegal in a bunch of places for moral reasons. It was made illegal "to protect the rights of the zygote/fetus/baby."
Sex work doesn't effect anyone else's freedom. You can choose to not engage with it if you want. Making it illegal does effect people's freedom, and also creates a hazardous environment for sex workers. If you actually want to solve the things you're complaining about, the only solution is to legalize it and install protections. If you're arguing for making it illegal then you're the one causing the issues for these sex workers. You are responsible for them not having protections, not having mental and physical healthcare, fearing going to the police when something happens, and all the rest.
You honestly think that selling your time to make money is the same as selling your BODY to make money? Please tell me your not serious about that. There are barter systems where people exchange their labor for goods without any money involved, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a system where people sell their body for goods on regular basis.
So exactly how does one provide for one's need for food clothing and shelter if they DONT want to sell their time? Live in the woods and forage for berries?
Again, selling your body is working in manual labor more than sex work. You literally destroy your body for it. Sex work doesn't.
I've seen people need surgery for their knees by 30 because they sold their body to lift cargo. It happens incredibly regularly. As for sex work, also incredibly regularly, which I wouldn't describe as "selling your body" but it is using your body for a service. It's not being damaged or losing value though.
OK, first you're implying I said you can't sell yourself for money. I didn't say that. You did. I just pointed out that we all do it. You only had an issue with it in regard to sex work, but for some reason don't care for other work that takes so much more from us for less in return.
Second, there are alternative systems to capitalism that don't require you to self yourself for survival. It isn't a requirement for life. To see how capitalists see us, the people at work how interact with us are called human resource managers. We're a resource to be consumed and spent to generate profit for the comoany. You're just diluded into thinking that's fine, but people can't choose to do the same with sex work. Why not?
Thats where I completely disagree. There is a big emotional and psychological toll to be used by another person for money. Yeah, in 20 years your knees might be in better shape than a factory worker, but your emotions, your self esteem, your mental health will not be. The knees can be fixed with surgery. How do you fix crippled mental health? There are people who spend their lives in therapy because mommy yelled at them a lot when they were young. You think someone who has been used over and over by other people for their own pleasure is going to be in better shape than that emotionally damaged person? Absolutely not. NO ONE comes out of sex work undamaged - its literally the price of participation.
Again, you're literally doing this if you have a job. I don't disagree. You just only have an issue with sex. If you think this is valid, explain why sex is different.
That's part of why we have so many issues in the US. People are selling their lives to corporations to survive, and they're given no mental Healthcare to help them. Mental Healthcare is a thing though and it can be provided.
No one comes out of capitalism undamaged. There are some porn stars and brothel workers (with protections) who seem to be perfectly healthy though. It's the lack of safety nets and protections that cause issues. The same thing is true for factories before we had safety nets, or any other kind of work. Sex work is work, and all work needs protections so workers aren't abused and taken advantage of. Without it, of course there are issues. Its not because of the type of work though, it's the lack of protections.
You have a weird issue with sex, where you think it's "being used" if you have sex. I haven't done it for money, but I've had plenty of loveless sex, and it doesn't have any magical powers. It's just an act.
We're all being used every day. There's no difference when it's sex. You keep saying there is, but providing no reasoning other than just that it's true because you believe it's true.
There are a lot of sex workers who get through it all and are as perfectly healthy as the rest of us, sometimes more. Yes, there are some who don't, but that's true for everything. Sex work has the double issue of a lot of it not being legal and having no protections, and also attracting people who aren't as well already. We should be doing more to make it legal so we can help them, not the opposite. Making it illegal doesn't make it go away, it only ensures the issues you're pointing out are more common.
Dude, I worked in an office job for more than 10 years. I didnt feel used. I didnt feel like my self esteem was compromised. I didnt feel like I had to give up my dignity for pay. Never once did anyone ask me to take off my clothes and insert X object into one of my holes so they could watch me and jerk off.
You have a very warped idea of what a regular job is like compared to sex work, but ok go ahead and convince yourself that they're exactly the same. Dear god.
Cool. You're in the same boat as a lot of sex workers then! However, you were used. It's called human resources because they see us as resources to use. You can not feel used doing your work, and the same goes for all work, but if you're doing it because you have to to survive then you are being used. You're a whore for money. You just might be doing other acts than sex, but there's nothing more honorable about it.
What is your problem? Is that the only way you can lose dignity in your opinion? It should be doing some you find demeaning, which is an opinion. I think people who are sycophants for people like Musk, Bezos, Trump, etc. are much less respectable than people doing sex work. We're all whores though. They wave cash in front of our faces and we beg them for it.
No, you have a very warped idea of what sex work is. Legal sex work the workers choose their partners and get to say no to anyone or anything they want. Sure, they'll make more money for doing certain acts, just like any other job. They aren't the same. Just like a construction worker isn't the same as a software engineer. They aren't worse though. You look down on them, but you haven't given a reason for what makes it worse inherently.
I got into teaching to help kids grow and learn and you think Im a whore for money? Im done with your ridiculous and completed unfounded opinions. You need help.
You can do things only for what it achieves, but if you've done anything you don't want to for money, that's literally a whore, by definition. (This isn't saying something bad about you. It's about all of us. I don't look down on us.) I wish we could choose to persue our passions without needing to work for money to survive. That's not an option for most people though.
It's called wage slavery, where you need your wage to survive, so you can't just say no to it. If this doesn't apply to you then great! I'm happy for you. If it does though, then welcome to the party. We all do what we have to to survive. I don't look down on anyone for it. I don't have the issue. You do, because you think your better than other workers.
Do you think you'd help people in a different way if you had the resources to, or do you think you'd still do the exact same thing if you didn't have to think about money? Would you choose anything different in your life if money weren't part of it?
Have you heard of a sweatshop?
Stop trying to control women.
Really. So the only reason that sex workers hide what they do is ONLY because they will be stigmatized by others? But they are inherently happy with selling their bodies to lusty men for money cause that makes them feel fulfilled and legitimate and empowered?
Huh. Thats kinda preposterous.
NO ONE is happy with being a sex worker because they have to do mental gymnastics to pretend that its not degrading and soul crushing work. And NO ONE stays in sex work long term because it'll kill your self esteem after awhile. Even OnlyFans, who say they feel safer online, get disgusted with trying to please gross men online because it never ends and always degrades to worse acts til they've had enough of being treated like a piece of meat. Selling your soul for a dollar. Its not legitimate work in any way, you can only pretend that it is for so long and then reality sets in.
Disengage.
Leave women and what they do, legaly, alone. Thank you.
Meanwhile you're probably perfectly OK with people selling their body to do labor I assume?
Are you really arguing that putting in a hard days work in a factory is the SAME as having sex with strangers for money? REALLY?
Sex work, whatever form it takes, is real work.
Flipping burgers is real work.
Construction is real work.
Writing code is real work.
Growing pot is real work.
Sitting in meetings all day is real work.
Professional sports is real work.
Having sex for money is real work.
Unclogging toilets is real work.
Streaming is real work (nude or clothed).
If it pays the bills and isn’t harmful then it is real work.
And there's the problem.
My sibling in Christ, implying that “sexuality is harmful” is one hell of a self-own.
Dude I never said anything like that. Sexuality is wonderful and a fantastic part of a relationship. Nothing wrong with it as the Song of Solomon and my marriage would attest. But we're not talking about 'sexuality' we're talking about people USING other people for their own lustful desire. Which is NOT wonderful. There is nothing good or right about a financial transaction so you can use someone else to get your rocks off - its not love, its not compassionate, its not empathetic, its just plain lustful selfishness. And therein lies the harm. You cant do that to another person and not harm them.
Something isn’t harmful simply because it doesn’t align with your own arbitrary personal morality. Do you know what is harmful? Projecting or forcing your own hypocritical biases and arbitrary personal morality onto others.
Where do you get 'hypocritical' and 'arbitrary' out of what I said? And where am I 'forcing' anyone to do anything? Im stating my views based on years of experience working with street workers and long experience on this earth.
"working against the existence of trans people is real work! especially when your wife is a literal prostitute!" is not a winning argument, my guy.
"banning books that say things I don't like is not a winning argument, my guy"
"banning an entire religion while you hold a bible upside down after assaulting peaceful protesters isnt a winning argument my guy"
"starting an 'academy/casino/business' that fails and professing your prowess in money making isnt a winning argument my guy"
No. A hard days work at the factory is much more damaging.
sleep with this fat old ugly man who will possibly beat you or kill you or impregnate you or do deranged sadistic things to you-- or work in this assembly line making iphones! Gee what a equivalent choice! So the same!
Sex work done right people get to say no and it's safe. Meanwhile people who have to lift heavy stuff all day every day have their knees destroyed by 30. Yeah, not the same at all. One you destroy your body selling yourself to the company.
Yes, sex work done wrong can be harmful and dangerous, but the same is true for all work. People used to lose limbs constantly working in factories because protections weren't forced on them. We recognized they were being abused by the system and passed laws to protect the workers. We need the same thing for sex work. Since it doesn't exist in the US, yeah it's normally pretty bad for people. Porn stars seem to be fine (though they're often around people who abuse drugs and they can get into that, especially since most start young, but this can happen anywhere). Prostitutes are doing illegal work though and are scared to go to the police usually. They're also frequently not doing it totally on their own and may not have the ability to say no. That has to change. People likd you saying that it's bad, wrong, whatever ensure it doesn't change to become safe.
oh on that we can agree on. What i'm saying is I'd rather lose a limb in a factory than be forced to have sex with someone like, say, is attracted to children. Or someone who's kink involves violence, or someone who has politically caused genocide. etc.
Love is love, I don't think people should be deprived of it, I don't think people who want to involve themselves in 'work' that involves that shouldn't do it. but lets call a spade a spade. prostitution I believe (like you) should exist but in the safest of circumstances, like the client needs to be vetted etc. There needs to be a balance, just like factory work.
Yes, it needs to be safe, legal, and regulated. Work is work, and sex work is work, and all work needs regulation to prevent exploitation of and harm to workers. Again, we sell the long-term health of our bodies to companies for money all the time and no one has an issue with that. Sex work doesn't (innately) cause long-term harm, or at least not anymore than any other kind of work.
It shouldn't be illegal, and that's where a lot of the danger is created around it. Prudish people who mix up sex and love pass laws to make it illegal though, and end up manufacturing hazerdous situations, because they think sex workers should be endangered.
agreed, and also I think 'slap chop' guy from those infomercial ads influenced my opinion on this way long ago which is hilarious but also sort of depressing.
but yes, i agree we give our bodies to our jobs I just only allow mine to stay above the waist-line. (not that theres anything wrong with the opposite)