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this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2025
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Luigi Mangione
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It will be very strange if jury nullification doesn’t happen.
I bet they do everything in their power to keep this from actually going to trial.
How long can they hold him without a trial?
Depends on how he's classified. The US has held some terrorists indefinitely without charges or trial.
"terrorists"
Putting quotes around the word doesn't change anything. He can still be designated a terrorist and held indefinitely without charge or trial.
I don't think he's a terrorist. But my opinion doesn't matter.
My point is that it's just a magical justification for torture.
They're just people. They always have been people who have been hurt and destroyed by the systems that pretend they didn't cause it. And America sure as shit isn't the authority on who's a terrorist
I think they can send him to Gitmo or some other black site whenever, wherever
They're sending people farther for less. But he has eyes on him. He's not a nameless immigrant.
That's not very nice of them. I wonder what their grandmothers would think if they knew
I think it’s more likely that the jury will vote to acquit just based on lack of evidence combined with police misconduct (and incompetence).
The evidence they’ve publicly talked about is both itself fishy and has chain of custody issues.
Normally they’d be able to get away with that because most defendants can’t afford good legal representation and most cases don’t get much scrutiny.
In this case, however, I think those issues completely sink the prosecution’s case and he’ll be acquitted just because the jury won’t believe he’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If at least half of what his lawyer claimed is true and able to be proven in court, he has a decent chance.
This is assuming that everything you've just described is permitted into evidence.
No it doesn’t. He’s innocent until proven guilty.
The evidence presented by the prosecution has to stand up to scrutiny, and it won’t.
But to what scrutiny, precisely? If a judge decides that certain specific problems with the evidence are inadmissible (including police misconduct and chain of custody issues), what other scrutiny could be given to the evidence?
Judges already have a lot of leeway over how they run trials even within the law, and we're talking about a country that has removed even the pretence of rule of law in the past six months (more, if we go back to the Trump v United States ruling last year).
The way it’s described sounded like he was on his way to the next one. Why else would you carry all of that with you?
They didn’t Miranda him. Maybe they didn’t want to Miranda him.
Who says he was carrying it around? Anyone could have stuffed that in there while he wasn't looking.
Nah. I think he did it and was on his way to the next one, stopping at McDonalds instead of Starbucks this time. I don’t think he’s insane. I think he’s just “crazy enough” to do what he did, in the same vein as all those 20-somethings engaged in the American Revolution all of whom pushed past that internal barrier.
People forget most of the famous names of the time were 20s & 30s, with a few “old” guys, like Washington, in their early 40s, likely lending a paternal endorsement to the whole thing.
By the patterns of history, a dam could’ve broken with Luigi, but it didn’t and likely won’t going forward, or it would have already. That ignition point has passed.
This is like Paul Revere getting arrested on the way and everyone just kinda going “ok”, and then watching a cat video or going back to, idk, what are the kids playing these days? Minecraft? Roblox?
Luigi is innocent. Just from looking at the pics, the brows are different. Luigi didn't do it. Jury nullification is not needed. A simple acquittal is all that is needed.
The jury will be told that they have to find according to the letter of the law, and they'll almost certainly be screened by the prosecution during jury selection to avoid people who know nullification is a thing.
It's certainly possible that it could occur regardless, but they'll do everything they can to avoid it.
Prosecutor: Potential Juror #5. Are you aware of the concept of Jury Nullification?
Juror: I am now.
How do you screen for jury nullification without informing everyone as to what jury nullification is?
As far as I'm aware, the closest they can get is to ask something like "Will you promise to carry out the laws of the federal government as written?"
So how does that work? You’re in a court of law, which makes that an oath, right? Correct me if I’m wrong. Yet juries can render any judgement, including jury nullification, and it’s all legal.
Given the nature of this administration, and the level of mutual gratification occurring between billionaires, CEOs, and this administration, I would not be surprised if they try to break jury immunity in the event of a Luigi verdict that involves jury nullification or innocence.
That and Luigi’s fate likely rests in the same place as all the whistle blowers of 2024. Bill Burr is right. Corporations are the new mafia, they’re simply backed by the law this time.
If the jury returns innocent, there's absolutely no legal recourse for those gunning for him (regardless of whether it was actual jury nullification, or they legitimately think there's reasonable doubt).
That doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in a country where extralegal kidnappings and concentration camps are happening, but that's as far as the legal system goes.
12 jurors all being aware of it and wanting to do it is extremely unlikely, unfortunately.
Only one juror needs to be aware of it before the deliberation, the hard part is getting everyone to agree to it. Repeated trials with repeatedly hung juries would almost be better though
Having him be released under jury nullification would send a powerful message to the elites.
Honestly, an activist film maker should make a movie about how people arrested for helping fugitive slaves escape were often released under jury nullification. Get the idea out there.
If the jury is nullified, it will end up back at the SCOTUS, and under the current circumstances, the majority of the court is FULLY and OPENLY owned by the oligarchs.
We need an acquittal.
Also, if it looks like he's going to get out, I would not be at all surprised to see him oofed with more 'lost' footage.
I expect this is how it's actually going to go down
That's a fantastic idea
My jury experience was not confidence inspiring. Granted, it was not high profile. It was a civil case that drug on for a week. Essentially, there were three of us that lead the decision by force of personality. Everyone else was waiting to go home.
The nature of the selection process alone will make it extremely difficult for them all to be of the same mind.
Well, yes, however there is some predictability regarding people and how they move on groups. In addition, how people flow in terms of the numbers of leaders and non-leaders in any given group. What are the odds of 12 random people who are individual, self starters with opinions with no fear of “confrontation” (with fellow jurors) and no reticence regarding speaking in a group of twelve?
There is a large body of research within the cognitive science / behavioral economics paradigm on juries. Dig in. It’s not reassuring, either way.
For any jury, I posit that it would take 1 person with a personality who knows about jury nullification to present it to the rest. What is the likelihood that none of the 12 know?
Personally, I made no effort to get out of jury duty because of my past studies and research. Curiosity drew me in, and it will again on the next call. You should check out the process, given the opportunity.
Check out 1988 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
I worry that even if it goes to null, it'll get frozen and go to SCOTUS who will certainly side with the bourgeoisie.
During the Viet Nam War, activists robbed paper lists of potential draftees from the federal office housing the lists, were caught, and tried. The defendants more or less put the war on trial. The jury acquitted all activists of all charges. Yes, they robbed a federal office, but, nah. Their act was a direct attack on the federal government and its war, and yet, no SCOTUS.
My main concern for Luigi is related to 2024, the year of the whistleblower murders. I look at that, in terms of what CEOs are capable of. I look at Luigi. And wonder if those same CEOs will allow him to walk even if acquitted.