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Sarcastic bluesky post saying [time traveling back to 1933 to make sure to tell Germans to protest Hitler less vigorously so as not to alienate bougie centrists who want to go to brunch undisturbed, thus preventing the rise of fascism]
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Use alt text or image descriptions to allow greater accessibility
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We require alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
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1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
Except in this case, the previous government had already killed 4 million Jews, and Hitler was only continuing the previous government's policy of genocide.
No, in this case, the government would have killed 0 Jews, and instead provided weapons and ammunition to a long-time ally who suffered a brutal terrorist attack just a year prior and was in the middle of a bloody vengeance campaign that had gone way beyond the scope of neutralizing the enemy and had become a full blown extermination campaign in which Hitler was outright calling for the use of nuclear weapons and complete annihilation.
But, that far in to the weeds and the analogy breaks down because you're just describing the very specific situation that happened back in November.
The genocide of Palestinians has been going on for nearly a century, it didn't start after October 7th. Israel was founded on settler-colonialism and erasure of Palestinians, including stealing cultural symbols like food and claiming it as "Israeli."
Nah, sorry but this is an absolutely horrendous take. Modern Israel is fundamentally an early settler-colonial project, and thus is based on genocide. The only solution is a single, secular and democratic Palestine, with minority protections. There isn't anything genetic about the Palestinian/Settler conflict, in fact a large number of Israelis are from the US and Europe, not actually born in Israel.
Kamala would never stem the flow of support for Israel, because Israel's role in the broader US Empire is as a mega-US millitary base in the Middle East, to keep oil flowing and pressure the Middle East into conceding to US interests above all. Kamala knew this, Biden knew this, Trump knows this too. None of them ever would have stopped the gravy train, the US depends on it economically. The loss of Israel would be a devastating blow for US soft power in the region, hence Biden's endless public critique while privately sending everything necessary. The difference with Trump is that it's all above the table and public facing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)
You don't get to call truth an"absolutely horrendous take", but it's kinda the only tool the proxy-trump voters have left to save a little face, so whatever floats your boat.
What, exactly, does linking a Wikipedia page dispute about what I've said? What "truth?" I called your analysis a horrendous take because it was, Israel pre-October 7 was commiting genocide, and was commiting genocide even back when it was founded three quarters of a century ago. Kamala would never oppose Israel. I also don't like the insinuation that I'm a Trump voter, I never voted for Trump nor any republican, ever. Calling your take bad wasn't my "only tool," I dismantled your argument that capes for Zionist genocide of Palestinians.
Here's some good reading for you, since you love linking articles:
To Stop Marx, They Made Zion
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
Strategy for the Liberation of Palestine
State of Israel
State of Palestine
I'm not insinuating that, I'm stating that you are a proxy trump voter. There is a difference.
Let put it this way. If this ongoing genocide has always been such an issue since the 1940s, where the fuck were the people protesting voting and calling for a cessation of support during previous elections? Why wasn't this laid at the feet of Trump on 2024, or Biden and Trump in 2020, or Clinton and Trump in 2016, or Obama and Romney in 2012? The answer is that it was a wedge issue driven into the anti-trump voters by Republicans and their foreign backers in a boldface attempt to fragment the voting bloc. Full stop. People fell for it, they fell for it fucking hard, they put the idealized fairytale ending of an endless war between two groups of religious zealots above the safety of immigrants, the rights of citizens, the prosecution of corrupt politicians and the general rule of law here.
You got conned into being a proxy trump voter. 2 party system sucks, I know. I wish it was all sunshine, rainbows, and an intelligent and compassionate electorate, but we're not going to get that if we keep going all in on a 0.3% chance of winning just the Presidency for 4 years. Baby steps. You gotta walk before you can run.
Not voting for Trump is not voting for Trump. If I wanted Trump to win, I would have voted for Trump. Simple as that.
Secondly, pro-Palestinian protests have been ongoing since Palestine was first colonized by the settler Zionists. The increase in support over time for such protests comes from the increased relevance of social media, and the erosion of influence of traditional media, which is easier to control. I've been pro-Palestine for decades, the tremendous increase in opposition to genocide has been an incredible tilt that I have never seen before, and it's thanks to the fact that daily people are seeing Zionists gun down dozens of Palestinians.
There is precisely no evidence of foreign actors pointing out the bipartisan support for genocide as a means to get Trump elected. Zero. This is an utter fantasy you invented in order to reconcile your willing participation in a genocidal system.
And no, electoralism doesn't work. Leftists have known this, which is why Leftists advocate for getting organized, and not for distilling your connection to the political process to a single vote cast once every 2-4 years.
That's not the argument I made. I said that there were Republicans and foreign actors targeting the anti-trump voting bloc.
So who did you vote for in the last 4 elections?
Gotcha, so where are we at with that "leftist" party? I don't see much organizing going on over there.
Proxy voting for trump is proxy voting for trump. If you wanted trump to lose, you would have voted for the viable candidate that stood a chance of beating him. Simple as that.
There's precisely no evidence of Republicans or foreign actors pointing out the bipartisan support for the genocide of Palestinians as a means to get Trump elected.
Not telling you who I've voted for, you aren't owed that.
PSL is growing more rapidly than ever, and is spearheading a lot of the current protests against Trump and against ICE, against the bombing of Iran, against the genocide of Palestinians, and more. You should join! Would be good for your political growth.
There is no such thing as "proxy voting." I did not vote for Trump, and no matter who I voted for, he still would have won. It wasn't close, and it wasn't because of some master play by foreign actors and Republicans. It's because the DNC has moved so far to the right that they are utterly disconnected from the needs of the working class, a class they can't support because just like the GOP, they are a party of the capitalist class.
The "silence" is deafening.
Saying it again doesn't make it right. Thats not the argument I put forth. Read it again, slower this time.
Also, you should really rethink PSL. I looked into them last year after a commentor suggested them as an "anti-genocide" party... And there is a lot of support of the North Korean Workers party, and the CCP in the PSL organization. Both of which have perpetuated horrible genocides and human rights abuses.
So no, I won't be joining.
There was no "silence." I outright told you that you aren't owed an answer.
I read your comment, it's exactly what you meant.
Further, you're deeply confused about PSL, the WPK, PSL's stance on the CPC and DPRK, as well as Socialism and Socialist history in general. Talk to a local chapter and try to get a better understanding of things. By the sounds of it, you'd condemn Nelson Mandela, Cuba, the Black Panther Party, all manner of Socialist orgs. Considering your erasure of the Palestinian genocide, I don't think you're a good reference for anything.
Like, what genocide have Koreans, North or South, ever comitted? Koreans on both sides were the victims of genocide at the hands of the US Empire. More tons of bombs were dropped on Korea than the entire pacific front of World War II, and the US was preparing to nuke it.
Citation needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea
I seriously doubt your ability to comprehend the written word since you've read it 3 times and still can't accurately summarize my stance on the issue.
Your comment got removed for your erasure of the Palestinian genocide, you made it seem like pre-October 7 there was no genocide and that "both groups have been killing each other for hundreds of years," you have no analysis of Israel as a settler-colony.
As for the Arduous March, that's a horrible mischaracterization. After the fall of the USSR, the DPRK's main trading partner, the economy was in utter shambles. The US deliberately sanctioned the DPRK in the hopes that starvation would lead to the people overthrowing the government, rather than letting them trade for food, or even export commodities in exchange. This was on top of floods and drought.
You have no actual knowledge of Korea or Palestine, you rely on Wikipedia articles as a substitute fot actually digging into these subjects. You have a thoroughly western-centric and US-friendly viewpoint with surface-level knowledge at best.
Again, I read your comment, it's exactly what you meant. There is precisely no evidence of foreign actors pointing out the bipartisan support for genocide as a means to get Trump elected. Zero. This is an utter fantasy you invented in order to reconcile your willing participation in a genocidal system.
Right now, you aren't really worth talking with. You don't actually have an understanding of the subjects we are discussing, historically or conceptually. I suggest you take a step back and do some actual research. The books and articles I linked earlier on Israel and Palestine are good for an intro on that matter, at the very least.
With liberals like you, who needs republicans?
My comment was unfairly removed.
Acknowledging that the conflict has been going on for hundreds of not thousand of years of years at this point apparently counts as trivializing genocide.
I'm not sure why I got kicked for it after you trivialized the genocides that the PSL defends, but hey, this is "leftists memes", so as long as a group has the word "peoples" or "socialist" or "workers" in the name then it must be good.
Edit: I will check out the articles, but I can't read everything instantaneously.
Modern Israel is less than a century old. This is not a "thousands of years old conflict," it's younger than World War II. Israel is a settler-colony, one that appeared less than a century ago. This is why your comment was removed, you call famines caused by economic crisis, sanctions, drought, and flood "genocide" but extend the most nuance to a fascist settler-colony that collaborated with the Nazis and is anti-Yiddish.
All of your critique is utterly devoid of a real understanding. Take a step back. Even though PSL has largely the same stances as Cuba, the Black Panther Party, Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X, and other Socialist and Socialist-sympathetic groups and figures, you condemn them without actually digging into their real stances. Go to a local chapter and ask questions.
It is good for you to read. You shouldn't discuss subjects you haven't studied as though you have, it comes across as infantilizing and as you already did, makes light of genuine mass slaughter of Palestinians and cultural absorption. Your misframing me as simply looking at the name of something to determine if its good or bad, when I've already demonstrated that I put far more effort into studying these subjects, is utter cope.
If you want, I can offer good sources and readings, or you can try to find good sources on your own. The less you speak on matters you don't know nor understand, the more worthwhile the conversations you'll have will be.
With that, I'm disengaging.
1948 was not the exact moment that all the Jews teleported to a section of Palestine. As stated before, the area has a long history of conquest and conflict since 3 major religions all consider the area a holy land.
Israel was always going to do just want they wanted to unless someone stood up to them. That was never going to be Trump, nor was it going to be Harris, let's be real here for a second. That sweet, sweet AIPAC cash is just too hard to say no to, and, frankly, Israel is a really charged topic that candidates would prefer to avoid. I find your distinction meaningless, it's like handing an alcoholic booze while saying "nooo, please don't drink it, it's bad for you" only to turn around say that you didn't help them destroy their life because you oh so gently reminded them that booze is bad for their health as you handed it to them. This is a cigarette company defense.
They're doing it to Trump, just on Iran, because they know Trump isn't going to meaningfully stand up to them, while still not wanting to get the US into full blown war. They'd be doing it to Harris too, because the DNC didn't even trust her enough to let her run her own campaign, they sure as fuck weren't going to let her run her own presidency. We'd probably have some DNC turbodonor or AIPAC mf as SecDef.