Note that I'm not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him -- my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the "evil transgenders" stereotype
Pictures, Videos, Articles showing just how boring it is to live in a dystopic society, or with signs of a dystopic society.
Rules (Subject to Change)
--Be a Decent Human Being
--Posting news articles: include the source name and exact title from article in your post title
--If a picture is just a screenshot of an article, link the article
--If a video's content isn't clear from title, write a short summary so people know what it's about.
--Posts must have something to do with the topic
--Zero tolerance for Racism/Sexism/Ableism/etc.
--No NSFW content
--Abide by the rules of lemmy.world
This is so disgusting because she totally deserved to stab him in self defense. Getting hit three times necessitates self defense.
And I, a ciswoman, laugh when shit gets real because I have weird berserker blood or something. I can't control it, so if I'm going to stab someone in self defense, I would probably be laughing, too.
She could have filmed him and got him fired. You spit on people you get punched. If you are going to start a fight don't do it by doing something that instantly starts the fight while doing nothing to actually slow down your opponent. She could still have backed away, used pepper spray, used a taser, punched back.
All of these would see him face 99.9% of the consequences instead of him being dead and her life ruined.
You can't start a fight and claim self care.
So let me first say, I took that word for word, in the order you see it, from an earlier New York Post article. I hate giving them any attention, but the screenshot of a headline we're commenting on came from a blurb from the same website, as an 'update' to the article I linked. It really shows that ya'll didn't actually read anything, and are just commenting on other comments. They were at a bodega, where she allegedly cut in line. That's what started all this. She was supposed to 'get him fired' when he was off duty? You know how hard it is to get a postal worker fired?
So they're just two people at a bodega. She allegedly cut in line- I can't see her saying she did, or didn't, or where there was any reported camera footage. This dude starts screamin and cussin. She spits in his face. He hits her three times, she knifes him with the knife she just bought next door.
The fact that people are jumping to defend a guy hitting a woman for spitting in his face, because it's "escalating" and disrespectful, but ignoring that it was a response to escalating and disrespectful behavior, is ridiculous. You don't blame the guy who got knifed for yelling slurs first? You don't blame the guy for striking her after getting spit in the face? Why is she supposed to quietly and meekly accept this behavior when he can make her feel unsafe?
A man makes me feel unsafe and then hits me, three times! Three! I should absolutely knife him. I probably should've knifed him after the first time. (I'm kind of a big wimp so I don't think I'd be able to knife a guy, but I for sure would be right to defend myself.) And you know what? I'm a dumpy, middle-aged, short white woman. If a guy hits me even once and I knife him in self defense, and then say, "he deserved it," there are a lot of people who would be agreeing with me.
Lemmy just hates women tbh
I keep thinking... nobody (that I know of) was mad when that one guy called the other the n word, and threatened to beat his ass, so he bashed his face in with a twisted tea. A woman gets slurred at and spits in a guy's face, and it's okay to hit her? Three times? She's not allowed to defend herself?
It's hypocritical. Either hate speech is violence or it's not.
(In case it's not clear, I may not have violence in me, but I fully believe twisted tea guy did the right thing.)
Spitting on someone is an assault. Insulting someone is not. The two things are not comparable.
To be clear, I wouldn't escalate anything in general, if someone cuts in line or whatever, not worth picking a fight for such silly things. But if you spit to someone in their face, getting punched is something that it's well within the realm of things you should expect. From an ethical point of view, I probably wouldn't do either, but in general spitting is what turned this uncivilized event (from both parties) into a fight.
Self-defense laws vary a lot across countries. At least where I live, defense has to be motivated and proportional. If someone would slap you - for example - and you stab them, that probably wouldn't count as self-defense. I would personally disagree with you in that context, and probably a judge would too (at least here).
I don't like arguing from a legal standpoint, because a legal standpoint is not necessarily a moral one, but where I live, things are different.
Stabbing has always the risk of being fatal. No slur deserves death.
Edit: to expand to that, being motivated and proportional are two principles that I find very moral. I agree that legal and moral are not the same, but in this case I think the law is absolutely aligned with my moral. Stabbing someone for a slap or a slur is completely disproportionate and I would absolutely not consider it justified. Being assaulted and fearing from your life, that is different.
Punching someone also has the risk of being fatal.
Absolutely, but a much much lower risk than a stab. Since we are reasoning on the morals and not from a purely rhetorical point of view, we can't consider them the same. Also that's why I specifically said "slapping" in my example. Slapping is still physical violence, it's still an attack, but it's an example of something that doesn't warrant a potentially fatal response.
Pretty sure that neither of them are Mike Tyson, so uhhh
"Punching someone in the head can be just as fatal as stabbing."
I'm genuinely surprised people don't know this.
Did he go for the head? I haven't seen any video or articles mentioning the intended target.
I haven't, either. And I have looked. We're all working from incomplete information. All I know is, a man hits me, a middle aged woman, I can't just hit him back and expect to save myself. I'm gonna have to do something drastic.
That (and that history of mental illness) make me think they should've put her in a mental institution. The woman is not well. The attention from this isn't going to fix it either, that's for sure.
I mean, there's video of her getting beaten on by a couple of men either earlier this year, or last year. She said before the whole knife incident that she'd kill the guy if he laid hands on her, because no one is going to ever do that to her again. "Never again" is something I've heard from many other survivors. This woman has a responsibility not to be around others who might trigger her (especially while she possesses a knife) but I feel like that's the survivor mantra.
And I feel like she's not getting grace that I would get in her position.
Now I love sharing what my fiance thinks when stuff like this happens, and his opinion is, she shouldn't have escalated it, she was wholly wrong, 15 years is dumb. It's hilarious that we have very different reasoning and the same conclusion.
Who's gonna pay for her lifetime Doordash subscription? We live in a society, people need to go to the bodega.
No, I mean, as a person with PTSD, I know that I have triggers. Where possible, it's my responsibility to manage myself to try and minimize exposure to them.
We do live in a society. If people like myself want to continue to be around others, we owe it to the people around us to either be careful where we are and when, or to have a plan in place for when we're getting worked up, and those of us who become violent as a reaction to stimulus have to be extra vigilant.
It's not about it being fair. It's not fair, what was done to me, to make me like this. But other people can't be reasonably assumed to have the training and education necessary to know what they're seeing or dealing with. And there are consequences for the way we react, regardless of the why.
If what I suspect is true and the woman in this article was triggered by this man and it resulted in her violence, the consequences she's dealing with now may not be perfectly fair, but they're happening. If she had the capability and self-awareness to remove herself from the bodega, sure, it would've been inconvenient and unfair to her, but the consequences of knifing a guy and going to jail are way worse.
She gave him the training he needed. She said she'd kill him if he attacked her. He attacked her and she killed him. It sounds like she followed your advice about setting healthy boundaries. He knew exactly what to do and what not to do.
Yes, and now she's going to jail.
This is not a desirable outcome.
Yeah, they should have ruled out self defence, since she did everything right except cutting in line, and cutting in line isn't a crime
So bodily fluids of other ppl really gross me out, does that mean getting spit on gives me the right to use self defence? Id rather get punched many many times than spit on for context
I think if you were all up in someone's space screaming at them, there's a certain level of expected spit contact there just from talking, right?
Which is another reason you and I wouldn't be in this position. Gross!
But I do want to clarify I don't think she should be able to just like, walk away scot free from this. I just whole-heartedly disagree with people who want her dead. Or who think that fifteen years isn't a long enough sentence. Fifteen years is a long time. People are way too ready to discard people in this country.
spitting on someone is a form of assault.
so is screaming slurs at someone.
either merits a swift and forceful response in my book.