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[-] uriel238 8 points 1 day ago

In Julius Caesar a clock strikes three, and while they had hours (a fraction of the daytime, not a standard unit) they didn't have mechanical clocks.

But then while we know what happened to Julius Caesar based on historical accounts, even chronicles were politicized, which is why we don't know of Julia the Elder boffed half of Rome or was just the victim of slander. (Dramatists prefer she did while academics assume she was virtuous). So we know some of the details of the mass assassination of Julius Caesar but we only know some of the general details, which allows a lot of latitude in period recreations.

Jesus existed according to academics (based on third party accounts) but he might have just been an anti-establishment activist or a failed apocalyptic prophet. Not only did Jerusalem have those by the dozen but so did most satellites from which Rome demanded tribute. The miracles and matching Jesus up to fit the prophesies came later. Also Pontius Pilate loved crucifixion and had execution teams on standby where it was considered elsewhere in Rome a dire sentence for the worst of offenders. Pilate was the Roman equivalent of a hanging judge, so it was super-easy for a malcontent in Jerusalem to end up on the cross.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

But then while we know what happened to Julius Caesar based on historical accounts, even chronicles were politicized, which is why we don’t know of Julia the Elder boffed half of Rome or was just the victim of slander. (Dramatists prefer she did while academics assume she was virtuous). So we know some of the details of the mass assassination of Julius Caesar but we only know some of the general details, which allows a lot of latitude in period recreations.

We know about Julius Caeser in large part due to the highly politicized nature of the office. If he was a "lesser" consul or emperor, less material would be produced and preserved over the subsequent centuries. The materials around minor prophets in far-flung holdings where the biggest literate portions of the population were ideologically opposed to his contemporaries weren't going to make it to Cato the Elder in a timely fashion.

That takes us to the documents we do have, which are absolutely larded up with embellishment and gossip and mythological rumor. That's not an unknown problem for exceptionally historical figures. We don't discount the existence of the Pharaohs of Egypt because their surviving manuscripts describe them as deities. Nor do we dismiss the existence of the city of Troy because our handful of texts insist the city was frequented by Greek gods and goddesses.

Jesus existed according to academics (based on third party accounts) but he might have just been an anti-establishment activist or a failed apocalyptic prophet. Not only did Jerusalem have those by the dozen but so did most satellites from which Rome demanded tribute.

The significance of the founder of the Christian movement wasn't that he was one more anti-establishment apocalypse prophet, but that he succeeded in galvanizing an enormous popular movement in a way prior rabbis and rabble-rousers hadn't.

Blandly comparing Christ to Spiderman only really makes sense if you believe Spiderman has had the same influence on modern American society and culture as a Jewish mystic had on Rome. I mean, maybe 2000 years from now we'll see it differently. But it seems fairly obvious that's not the case.

[-] kofe@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

I'm reading it as a joke like "yeah sure, a guy named Jesus was born to a virgin and rose from the dead"- which is about as likely as Peter getting bit by a radioactive spider and swinging from skyscrapers with his webs. Has nothing to do with whether either are influential on society. Of course they both are to varying degrees. One is treated like Greek, Egyptian, or Incan gods or priests or whatever comparison you think best maintains the spiritual elements. The other more like Santa, where kids believe it only so long as their peers and adults play along.

Imo, as long as we move forward as a society eventually to recognize the mystical parts are bullshit, who cares. Humanity collectively still seems to be in Santa stage wanting miracles to exist.

[-] uriel238 2 points 21 hours ago

As I understand it, Christianity got lucky. Jesus' incident led to a movement in a time when it suited the purposes of disregarded demographics, of ambitious warlords and academic philosophers. It was the grain of sand that started a landslide, the planet suitable for intelligent life to evolve.

Jesus (again, according to academic consensus) was the lucky quantum to start a massive cain reaction.

this post was submitted on 29 May 2025
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