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Have I Been Pwned owner, pwned.
(htxt.co.za)
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this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2025
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AT this point it is safe to assume you will fall for scams like this in your life. They are too like the real thing. We need the laws and police to catch up to investigating this thus making crime not pay (most of this is from countries that don't work with police - so probably some major international efforts required as well).
I almost fell for a bank scam a couple years back. Basically, I had just gotten a new phone w/ GrapheneOS, which doesn't have Google's scam number protection (I was well aware, that's not the issue) and I hadn't yet transferred my contacts, and I received a call about a fraud alert on a card. This has happened a few times, and usually it's a pretty straightforward call where they verify my identity before asking me about certain transactions. As a bit of background, I was on vacation at the time and I got the call while waiting in the parking lot while my SO ordered something at a food truck.
Anyway, the call progressed like this:
I immediately called my bank and sorted things out, and we figured out nothing was stolen because I didn't provide the second code (that was to link an external account to suck my money out). Because I was in an unfamiliar setting and honestly pretty tired (we drove all day the day before), I just skimmed the text in step 2 w/o reading that it was a user-initiated code (i.e. for a password reset) instead of a bank initiated code (i.e. verify identity).
I consider myself a pretty security-conscious person. I use a password manager, MFA everywhere I can (preferring TOTP), I'm a lead backend SW engineer who has caught multiple security issues, etc. However, I fell for the scam and missed the safeguard that should have protected me. Fortunately it all worked out, but I did have to change all of my account numbers and login, which wasn't particularly fun while on vacation. That bank is fortunately one of the few that supports TOTP in my country, though I had avoided setting it up because it required a special app (Symantec VIP) and calling in (no self-service). I now have it set up and feel much better about my account security.
I'm fairly certain I annoy the people at my bank because I always insist on calling them back at their official number if they ask for any personal information. I don't fuck around with my bank security. I did however get got a couple of more years ago back when the chrome browser window phishing attack first started and had my Steam account stolen for a solid minute.
That's the attack where they simulate a browser window so what you think is a oauth popup is actually just inpage javascript and CSS.
Yeah, I'd really rather avoid waiting on hold every time there's a fraud alert or something. It doesn't happen a lot, but I have a lot of cards (like 10) and I often have one that gets an alert most years. It's usually not an issue, especially since I don't usually have money at the same institutions where I have a credit card, this was a special one where it's a card I only use at like 3 places (Steam being one of them) because it's for purely personal spending (as opposed to "family" spending).
If I wasn't on vacation, hadn't just gotten a new phone (I enter my bank's numbers as contacts), or wasn't impatient (I was hungry and waiting for food), it wouldn't have been an issue. It was just a perfect storm of opportunity. Now it's even less likely because I now use TOTP and my understanding is that there's no reason the bank would ever ask for that code (I think they only send text).
It happens.
Yup, what you're describing sounds inline with how Corey Doctorow fell victim to fraud.
This one?
It's completely different. In that case, they were able to set up a fake business to accept payments, which is way more sophisticated than what happened to me. In my case, they just needed my login name and phone number, and I had reused the login name on several sites, so a number of places could have been involved in a breach. All the scammer had to do in my case was:
That's it, just two pieces of information, some smooth talking, and a little luck that I don't catch on. Corey Doctorow's situation required quite a bit more setup than that:
That's a lot more sophisticated than what happened to me.
He got scammed again? Damn. Sorry, I was referring this one. And not really the details of the scam, but it was the wrong place / wrong time element that reminded me.
Edit: the article you linked is older, so I guess not "again".
Oh yeah, that's a lot more similar.
No, absolutely not standard. This is where red flags should go up. If your bank texts you a code when you log in, then that's what the scammers are doing (trying to log in as you, triggering the website to send you the code to confirm that it's you logging in (except it's not you, it's them), and then getting you to tell them the code so they can finish logging into your account.
There are two types of texts:
The first is needed for user-initiated actions, the second is only used to ensure the person you're talking to has access to the device on file.
When I called the actual bank, they did the second one to reset my account credentials, and again when I set up the MFA app after the trip. It's absolutely a thing. When I call for help navigating the website, the person on the phone walks me through the SMS verification process, but explicitly tells me to not tell them that first type of code.
Scammers do the first and cannot do the second, which is why they have the warning text on the first and not the second (though there is different warning, which makes it clear they're different). My fail was skimming the text for the number and ignoring the warning about not giving it to anyone.
I personally know of two different banks who send a notification to your phone app to verify that it's you they are speaking with on the phone, and they will do this even when it's them that called you and not the other way around.
It's security theater as it doesn't prove anything to either party (as it's trivial for scammers to have a man-in-the-middle) but they still do it.
Then you tell them you will call them back, hang up, call the bank yourself and do it that way. If they are legit, they can tell you their name and extension and you can verify that is even real when you personally call the bank.
I did this once, it was legitimate but he refused to tell me even what department he called from. I said i wasn't going to give personal into to an incoming call and i wasn't calling back unless i knew why. He ended up mailing me a letter instead.
I almost got scammed a few years ago by being called about fraudulent activity the day after i reported fraudulent activities, in hindsight I think they just got lucky with timing, but I take no chances now.
Ever noticed how decades ago if someone defeated a bank's security we called it bank robbery, but now it's called identity theft and we get blamed for it.
USAA does this when someone calls in, but I think that last part is the real difference here
That's exactly the issue, how do you prosecute hackers from countries that either a) don't care because they're collapsing/at war/etc or b) actively encourage hackers like DPRK, Russia, China.
There's no way to realistically police it without some One World Government type shit. All we can do is practice good security.
Perhaps Jason Statham can be part of the solution, a la The Beekeeper
I'm just glad I got my parents trained enough to immediately contact me for anything that seems "off". The result is that they panic needlessly almost daily, but I still prefer that over getting the dreaded "they emptied all our accounts" call.
If anyone hasn't seen the videos Jim Browning did a while back about gaining access to a india scam call centers network and subsequently, thier cameras, its a fascinating watch but also pretty concerning.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBNmQJqxpaMaxqghShRiOnHUjO00ZCsor
One of the worst parts is that sometimes the police are on the scammers payroll, making it hard to take action. It would likely take an international effort to even make a dent against these kinds of places. They make a ton of money off these scams so its going to keep happening.