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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2025
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No, no it's not. Maybe when operating in dangerous missions while deployed overseas.... While working on American soil? No.
None of the other branches being ordered to do similarly sketchy quasi unconstitutional work have removed their identifiers, none of the other branches have opted to classify the work they are doing.
The Air Force has a pretty well known history of racism, rape, and Christian nationalist in their command structure. Out of all the branches it doesn't surprise me at all that the Air Force is the branch falling over itself to follow trump's orders.
I'm not sure how you can imply that you're familiar with how the military operates and then say something as ignorant as this.
All branches of the military "fall over themselves" to follow the orders of the President. That's literally how the chain of command works.
Be upset at Trump for assigning shit missions, but it's incredibly ignorant to attack any specific branch of the military for following lawful orders.
What do you picture the alternative to be? That some Airman should get himself court marshalled for refusing the order to remove his name and unit patch?
Could you explain how transporting people to their country of origin is an illegal order?
Or, maybe explain how you would handle the order as an enlisted soldier?
They are going above and beyond the assignment of the mission. As I said, the other branches have received similar orders but have made what they are doing public, and have not decided to operate anonymously.
Did I criticize the airman? No, I specifically criticized their command.
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes that limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.
Yes it is, those are Fly Away Security Teams (FAST) or Ravens. Go look it up, 95% of the official Air Force photos of FAST/Raven show people without nametapes, example taken from here.
Furthermore:
I can just take my top off if it's not too hot. My t-shirt does not have a nametape
I can just buy a nametape that says "Smith" or something common and you wouldn't know the difference.
And how often are they operating on American soil.......?
24/7
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes that limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.
Possie Comitatus has nothing to do with aircraft security.
Who said anything about aircraft security.....?
They are being ordered to enforce domestic policy on us soil, which is exactly what the law is made to prevent.
Me, I did. That's what Fly Away Security Teams do, that's what the USAF uses to secure it's aircraft, domestically and abroad.
Lol, do you think the plane is flying itself? The security of the plane isn't a problem, the problem is the mission of the plane in the first place.
You're moving the goal posts. The Air Force isn't enforcing domestic policy. They're operating an aircraft to provide logistics for other federal agencies.
The other agencies are enforcing domestic policy, not the Air Force. The people are not in the custody of the Air Force and they were not captured by the Air Force. ICE is simply using the Air Force equipment as transport and Air Force personnel operate and secure that equipment.
That's a semantic dispute, and service members have received sanctions for even support roles that are not directly excluded in the act .
"The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits using active duty personnel to "execute the laws"; however, there is disagreement over whether this language may apply to troops used in an advisory, support, disaster response, or other homeland defense role, as opposed to domestic law enforcement.[1]
On March 10, 2009, members of the U.S. Army Military Police Corps from Fort Rucker were deployed to Samson, Alabama, in response to a shooting spree. Samson officials confirmed that the soldiers assisted in traffic control and securing the crime scene. The governor of Alabama did not request military assistance, nor did President Barack Obama authorize their deployment. Subsequent investigation found that the Posse Comitatus Act was violated and several military members received "administrative actions".[22][23] "
You're quoting things with footnotes but not linking the footnotes.
The Air Force isn't executing the laws. Saying that it is semantics isn't an argument that. All legal arguments are based on semantics.
The people in ICE custody were captured by ICE. ICE executed the laws. Once the people were identified as foreign nationals, by ICE, and determined to require deportation, by ICE, then they are transported, by ICE, to their country of origin.
The deportees are in ICE custody (see the ICE agents in the OP) until they're in their country of origin where they are released, by ICE.
The Air Force simply operates the aircraft and provides all of the required logistics to do so.
This is no different than ICE using Delta to return people to their country. It would be silly to say that Delta has become a law enforcement organization because ICE purchased tickets to transport people to their country of origin.
And.....? So you have a logical retort, or lack the ability to use google?
And you don't have the authority to make that claim. Nor are you providing any evidence to support your claim.
Ice doesn't have the physical ability to transport people to their country of origin.
And military members have been sanctioned for support roles under the act in the past.
Except Delta is a private company and has the ability to not comply.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
It is not my responsibility to support your argument by trying to find the source of your quotes. That's not how the burden of proof works.
Considering that your position is that this is a violation of Posse Comitatus including a quote that says "there is disagreement over whether this language may apply to troops used in an advisory, support, disaster response, or other homeland defense role, as opposed to domestic law enforcement.[1]" seems to contradict your own argument.
The Air Force is under the command of the Commander in Chief and so they are required to comply with lawful orders.
Providing transportation for other federal agencies is a lawful use of military equipment under 10 U.S. Code § 2642(a)(3):
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2642
So, as long as the Secretary of Defense approves of the flights, then it is legal for the Air Force to provide military transportation services to any element of the Federal Government outside the Department of Defense. ICE is an element of the Federal Government outside the Department of Defense and so the use of Air Force equipment to provide transportation for ICE is legal under 10 U.S. Code § 2642(a)(3).
That clause very much seems to be written under expectation of moving personnel or equipment. Prisoner transport (not to mention prisoner management even were they stationary) very much crosses the line between "police and military" that is often warned against in government function.
They're not prisoners, they're not charged with a crime.
They're in the US without the legal authority to be in the US. Despite the drumbeat from the right calling them 'Illegals', they're not criminals... they simply are not allowed to be here (due to not having a visa) and so they're being returned to their country of origin. This is how immigration enforcement has been done for centuries in the US.
The major difference now is that Trump is treating undocumented immigrants as if they're a national security threat and allocating a large amount of resources to deporting these people. Obviously, this is massively damaging to the US as the lax enforcement over the decades has shifted our workforce so that much of our domestic farming and food production is done by immigrants, often without documentation. His motivations seem to be to play to the racism in his base and the damage that this enforcement action causes to families is reprehensible and disgusting.
But, in the end, this is the same means immigration enforcement that we've been using in the US for as long as any of us has been alive. The only difference is the scale and motivation.
The Air Force isn't doing anything illegal and protecting Airmen from retaliation is well within the mission scope of the Air Force. The OP isn't basing their arguments on reality. They're attempting to frame the removing of name and unit patches as something sinister to people who are ignorant of how these things work.
You don't want to have a bunch of people who're angry and could potentially be vengeful to have your name and other identifying information. It's as simple as that.
You fucking moron.... Anyone being held against their will is a prisoner.
Their issue is they don't even realize they are transporting human beings with innate rights, they just equate them as equipment.
Lol, yeah...... And I am denying your and the administrations claim that this is a legal use of the US military. I'm not making an affirmation as I have no power to order the US military to do anything.
Ahh yes, they're only transporting ice agents right ...... It's not like there are civilians on the plane who may or may not have been given due process.
The problem is that you don't even consider the cargo humans.
Moving the goal posts, yet again.
If ICE is violating due process, that is for the courts to decide and issue sanctions. That hasn't happened, as of this comment, there is nothing about these flights that are illegal.
ICE requests transport and the military provides it under 10USC2642. That makes the Air Force's transportation legal which is what the entire post is about.
🙄
Ah yes, ad hominem. Nothing says 'I have run out of arguments' like name-calling. I'm blocking you now.
A rebuttal isn't a logical fallacy you dolt. They just aren't transporting federal agents they are transporting prisoners, which the military isn't allowed to do.
Btw, attempting to frame everything as a logical fallacy isn't a fucking harry potter spell that automatically wins an argument. For it to be considered an actual logical fallacy the claim has to be logically flawed.
Meaning that for me to "attempt to move the goal post" means that my argument needs to shift in an illogical way as a way to confuse or obscure the original intent. If the argument adds or further expands the original claim then it's just adding to the body of evidence.
An ad hominem isn't just calling someone a bad name, it's an argument based on calling someone a bad name. As in don't listen to this guy, he's an idiot. I'm just calling you an idiot because I think you have reddit brain and it's upsetting.