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submitted 1 day ago by elfpie@beehaw.org to c/chat@beehaw.org

Let’s try a thought experiment. I define fanaticism as maintaining a position that can’t and won’t be changed by any sort of rational argument. That said, I ask for the second time: Are you a fanatic?

Next, let’s start investigating a little deeper. Try identifying a belief you have that is fundamental. Try something simple at first. The wall in front of me is solid. Would I be able to convince you otherwise? Would you act on it if I presented a perfect explanation proving that you are wrong and you agreed beyond any doubt? Can that wall in front of you not be solid?

Well, maybe that’s stupid. A wall is solid. It’s part of the definition. If I see something I identify as a wall, it must be solid. You can’t prove a wall is not solid. Bad example. I’m sorry.

Something different then. Do you believe there’s any human group that is inherently superior or inferior to another? Would you accept any perfect argument against that belief? Actually, would you accept anyone trying to make that argument? And, if you accept that this is a valid investigation, do you take for granted that a conclusion in conflict with your beliefs is proof enough that there’s some flaw in the argument itself? Are you a fanatic?

I am. Nothing new in my case. Self consciously speaking, I mean. The point today is the feeling we have when something fundamental is challenged. We won’t budge. And, please, notice I’m saying we, I’m saying you, I’m not saying them. I honestly believe we are all fanatics of some kind, although I might be wrong in this case, as in most cases.

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[-] MrsEaves@beehaw.org 2 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

I looked up the actual definition because I felt like this definition had a missing element, and the element that’s missing for me is the passion or excessive enthusiasm. For example, I’d be comfortable defining myself as a Ditto fanatic. I love Ditto, I know lots of Ditto facts, and I have a fundamental belief that no Ditto plush has any business using anything besides scuba fabric or something similarly stretchy and smooth. I also believe that tiny polystyrene beads are the only filler that make sense for a Ditto plush. I’ll back that up with Ditto lore any day. There is a fanatical quality to my search for the perfect Ditto plushie because of the level of depth and enthusiasm I approach it with, and it gives me joy to talk about it because it’s fun to talk about Ditto qualities.

Contrasting this with my fundamental belief that no human group is inherently superior or inferior to one another - the energy is different. I won’t budge on this, and I have a bit of data to back it up, but it’s not fun or interesting to argue or debate. I don’t go looking for or researching information on this because I don’t find the idea that one human might be inherently better than another interesting. What’s the point of that information? I haven’t ever seen that idea used for good. I might argue it the way I know I should take a vitamin, but it feels like a waste of time to argue about this when we could be talking about more interesting things. That’s not fanatical to me - I don’t obsess over it, and if I had my way, it wouldn’t even be up for debate. To me, that is more a moral than fanaticism. A moral is something divorced from fact or debate, that you hold to be true because you believe the world runs better that way. I wouldn’t accept a perfect argument that one type of human is inherently better than another because morally, I know that idea is at the root of all discrimination, and discrimination leads to harm, which I do not want to cause or contribute to, to the best of my ability.

I could see that same position becoming fanatical if I spent my free time chasing online trolls, bringing it up constantly with coworkers, or researching it obsessively to strengthen my arguments and be in the “winning” position of a debate. I am no more likely to change my opinion than I am the fanatic’s in this situation, but there is a significant difference in how I engage with the question and how much of my brain space it takes up.

Anyway, I’m a fanatic, but if I’ve got the read of your post right, that’s less the feeling to explore than the one that comes when someone questions your morals, and perhaps where they came from. Fanaticism is an interesting behavior though, and definitely worth deeper exploration if the fanaticism is tied to morals.

this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2025
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