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this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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@flying squid, part of the problem: "85% of American Jewish adults believe it is important for the U.S. to support Israel"
https://www.ajc.org/news/ajc-survey-shows-american-jews-are-deeply-and-increasingly-connected-to-israel
To their detriment, people generally do not think about any population with statistical terms. Humans are tribalist and much prefer binary thinking and always have. Linguists say that is not going to change and will get worse. I hear that our embrace of stats in the later 1900s was an aberation in the arc of historical rhetoric.
So the question becomes, when does a random fellow human feel its right to make generalizations?
when its 50% +1 (aka "more right than wrong") 99%? 99.999% or only at 100%?
Given, its a sliding scale dependent on the harm being done by making the assumption. If this decision kills someone, people generally will not make an assumption unless they are in an incited mob. If it will irritate or unfairly characterize you, nobody cares, and they will feel free to assume.
surety at 100% is obviously the ideal answer, but humans will never approach that because its too much work. We dont care about the uniqueness of individuals who self identify into a group. Most people tend much more toward 50%+1 than 100% in their thinking. As an example, I'm sure there were some (maybe not many) actually good people in the german nazi party. Maybe they werent aware of the murders, or their kid was a soldier, or whatever. Ever heard anyone talk about being careful not to malign them? And no, I am not suggesting we sympathize with nazis. This is part of the problem judges had to wrestle with after ww2: "not evil nazis"
Theres also the problem of crypto nazis as well. People who are secretly in favor of genocide but wont admit it outright. Humans lie, we all know this, so embracing someone on their word is not a successful strategy. We have to watch their actions instead. And we get tired of looking earnestly for outliers. Sorry, its not fair, but as far as I can tell its how humanity works, broadly speaking. Additionally, people do recognize that a lot of manipulation and marketing shenanigans has been going on around the Palestinian genocide. Yes, we are stupid, but we are just smart enough to see how ham-fisted that effort was. Thats not even going into what happened in the last election.
And theres the problem of aggregation. Sure any one member of a group stands a 15% chance of being against the genocide, but when 3 people get together, whats the odds that they are all against genocide? It drops from 15% per person to 3 tenths of one percent for a group of 3 all being members of that minority. This assumes uniform distribution of that viewpoint across a defined population.
You do know that Jews live in countries other than Israel and the U.S., right?
But your multi-paragraph attempt at justifying calling all Jews Zionists by default is noted.
Thats not what I said at all. You're lashing out and putting words in my mouth. The TLDR is that your complaint is doomed by human nature. So you better get creative.
And hey, my "attempt" is "noted"?
Well your emotional outbursts and manipulative straw manning is "noted". Seems you arent acting maturely enough to consider these problems in the abstract. Thats a 'you' problem bud. Way to miss the point and insert your own "woe is me!" cry as the only consideration here. You are displaying the same binary thinking as I was talking about in my post.
As to your other comment: You do know that Jews live in countries other than Israel and the U.S., right?
Sure. but over 82% of the worlds jewish population live in the US and in Israel. Did you know that?
I'm not jewish, or Palestinian, or religious in any way, but I am flatly against war crimes and genocide, period. And that puts me in the progressive camp where I am shat upon by the population just as much as you feel now, if not more. But you have lumped me in with the people who define all jews as zionists. Do you see how you are jumping to conclusions about me in exactly the manner you are angry about other people doing to you?
"You better get creative" at telling people to stop being such fucking bigots? Do you even pay attention to yourself?
Oh really? How many times has someone yelled a vile bigoted slur at you in the past year because of what you look like? How many times in your life did someone physically assault you because of what you look like? Because it's more than zero for me. How often are you told you have dual allegiances due to who your parents are, which is why genocide is your fault? Because it's a hell of a lot more than zero for me.
But sure, you get shat upon so much more.
(Typical whiny Jew, am I right?)
You're talking to the wrong guy. Many. I grew up in the inner city and was one of the only white kids in my grade school or neighborhood. I'd get chased around by groups of kids and beaten up. Very often --once they found out they could-- I'd have one of my knees dislocated. I spent a lot of time hiding in the bushes. I had bright red hair, am small and was skinny, and looked like howdy doodie-- or so I'm told, so even after we moved from that place, I've been singled out for my looks here and there. Until I grew big enough to go all in on fighting back, and shortened my hair to stubble.
A lot of fighting back is intellect. Understanding who was just teasing and could be joked with to defuse, who was just following, and who I had to fight, understanding when and where it was safe to enter a restroom.
I'm an old man now. A few times per year I still relive the fear of being chased and understanding that violence was about to happen when I hear or see other people being chased in movies. I cant look at that stuff. Being surrounded and overpowered is pretty visceral, and is having your leg yanked and twisted to dislocate it--especially when they cant remember which knee it was. I know exactly what reliving PTSD is. The severity comes and goes, but its more severe over time than makes any logical sense, and I sit there sort of stunned while I relive it. Which actually becomes ...tedious in its lack of healing. Frankly, at a certain period in my life, I became a bully myself. The fight changes you I think.
Do my creds check out enough?
My point was, conflict requires intellect, and you I dont see that you are applying that intellect.
You could have stopped with "white."
Also, you think I was talking about when I was a kid?