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RFK Jr. and Bernie Sanders get into screaming match over Big Pharma
(newrepublic.com)
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this post was submitted on 31 Jan 2025
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politics
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I feel sorry for Sanders calling out that buffoon.
I feel sorry that the Democratic party opted to cheat us out of President Sanders.
Contrary to the circles we reside in, most of the US despises any act of "socialism". It's ingrained in the culture after 50 years of waging a cold war against an entity that was associated with everything on the left because of propaganda. It will take a long time before enough of the people born before 1990 have died off before people will warm up to it again (I'm in this group too, being born 1982, but I wasn't politically aware enough care at the time, but some other kids' parents no doubt instilled this hate of socialism into them growing up. Millennials/Xennials, the generation that was supposedly the most left leaning in recent times, basically started 4chan, and look what it became).
We ARE in an echo chamber. I came to discover this when talking to young folks about Harris/Trump. Despite the enthusiasm I saw here for Harris, it did not translate to the real world at all. We have to come to grips with the fact that the majority of Americans suck.
Most of the US hates the word socialism, but if you pitch an actual example through a lens of saving money or creating jobs or something, they fucking love it. Just don't actually say the word and your golden.
Start using Social Democracy from now on, a way better term, since Democracy is part of it. Doesn't matter if its actually Democratic Socialism, just use Social Democracy anyways. Americans hear the word Democracy and they would accept it.
I think about this every time I talk to my "liberal" family and they don't even realize they're spouting conservative bullshit.
"I worked hard for my house, I deserve to live in it alone until I die" while their son who didn't ask for cancer or to not be able to afford his medications is on the verge of homelessness. I guess my hard work and being underpaid my whole life just doesn't count compared to theirs? I guess the fact that our country mercilessly exploited the rest of the world, preventing them from living such comfortable lives, to be able to achieve such comfort for ourselves, means nothing? Those people in other countries worked hard too and lived in multigenerational housing for, well, generations. But they don't deserve it somehow, they aren't American, and we're the best so we deserve it or some other fucking delusional shit I don't fucking understand it.
They don't get it and at this point I'm pretty sure they never fucking will because the poison of Individualism has gotten them and US citizens don't understand Collectivism or the sacrifices you make for society at all.
All the Boomers are just like Biden. No matter being the source of all our problems, they won't lift a finger to make a sacrifice at the end, because "they worked hard and they shouldn't have to." Sure, when all the queers are being lined up for the firing squad, I'm sure it will mean a lot to them that you just couldn't lift a finger to prevent it because "you worked hard" and "you deserved a calm end of your life" as if these other people being rounded up to be murdered didn't deserve that.
Biden could have done a fuckton for us on his way out, but not a single fucking person in charge is going to make a sacrifice for us. Not Biden, not Merchan, not anybody.
Except younger.
My immediate family is largely conservative voters, and they go on about what government should do, and it's all decently lefty suggestions, but try to point that out to them and they go nuts. Most people just seem very ignorant of politics in general.
Curious, what could he have done without congress, or overturned by trump?
Just off the top of my head: He could have released the whole unredacted Jack Smith Stolen Secrets report. Something far more damning to Trump than anything else. But nope, that got memory holed because of Judge Cannon even though it was no longer her case since she dismissed it and had no standing to sue to stop its release. So he literally already had precedent of the law being broken/ignored to keep it under wraps.
Yes, it would have been illegal. But the Supreme Court gave the President immunity for "official acts."
As if the stuff Trump is doing right now isn't way more illegal.
Biden wasn't willing to sacrifice a sliver of his stupid fuck principles to prevent this.
Nah dude, Bernie was WAY more popular than you’re giving him credit for. That’s revisionist history. He won multiple states in the primaries. That doesn’t happen for a Reddit echo chamber candidate. He even won important states like Michigan and Wisconsin.
He really did shake up the Democratic Party, which is why they panicked and did everything they could to push Bernie out. Both in 2016 and 2020.
America's mainstream opinions on "socialism" were not caused by America's history of arms races, thermonuclear development, and proxy wars across the globe, nor do they persist because of it. Many Americans have experienced a rapid and shocking shift in opinion toward Russia - the great red enemy of the cold war. This is still happening despite Russia making no major political reforms in recent history, no significant revolution in government, and actively trying to reclaim soviet territories.
If this was possible within a single generation, it also should be possible for public perception to change on socialism. There is no need or purpose to wait for people to die - their ideas live on.
No, decades after the cold war ended, the cause of the hatred of socialism in this country persists for one simple reason: Americans have become convinced through a tremendous amount of propaganda that Government is bad.
Not just America's government as an entity - we could all find some common ground there if it were that simple. No institution in particular, not the Administration, the federal or state legislatures, or the town halls, or the mayor of the small village who's really just doing it as a part-time gig - no, all of these are but parts of the greater problem - Government itself is seen as bad.
Not the flashy boots on the throats of "radicals", not the ICE agents storming the hospitals - that's not governing, that's just violence. No, what's "bad" are the mundane, boring, tedious things the Government does because someone has to.
There is this wild knee-jerk reaction to governance itself that dates back to good ol' Reaganism of course.
"The most terrifying words are... I'm from the federal government, and I'm here to help." (Reagan, 1986, paraphrased)
Spoken by the man specifically in charge of the federal government.
America was supposed to have been founded for the people, by the people, and with the people in mind. But now the people believe not only that the government isn't here for them - it can't be.
They believe we shouldn't try to make things better through governance because governing can't be good. it's always "inefficient", it's always "stealing your hard-earned money". To them it's million dollar pens in space, and spraying cat piss on drunk rats, and paying for hormones and birth control and school "litter boxes" - in short, to many Americans, any money the Government spends is by definition theft and waste, especially if it's hard to understand.
Changing their minds on socialism involves first changing their minds on the government. Not the capital A capital G American Government, but the nature and purpose of governance itself.
But on the bright side, I believe our opportunities to change those minds are only growing from this moment. The hateful idealogies, the demagogues, the simple answers - they're all a net negative on society. But the fact remains that the government is being challenged and ripped apart both internally and externally. Institutions are crumbling as we speak, traditions are being broken, and precedents are being set and shredded left and right.
People have the opportunity to realize that government itself is malleable, and that if it can be changed for the worse so quickly and horribly, then it can also be changed for the better. We have the chance to convince them that we as a society can take all of this power and use it for our personal and collective good, if only the right minds and the right ideas take root.
Must be an interesting corner of Lemmy you found to have seen people who had enthusiasm for Kamala.
Most here we're as enthused as a kid taking that old school bitter liquid antibiotic.
Okay, maybe not outright enthusiasm. More like relief in the hope we weren't getting Trump.
For me its more like: Magats hate Black Women, so having a Black Woman as president is gonna piss them off so much. (I mean, there are other PoC Women that are much better in terms of policies, but still... love Maga tears)
Holy shit, grow up and move on jesus christ.
EVERYONE! LOOK HOW COOL THIS GUY IS FOR NOT CARING ABOUT ANYTHING!
Freel better yet?
Let people enjoy things. Shitting in people like this makes you an asshole.
How did they do that?
Not only was the primary rigged, but it was established in court that both, it was rigged, and that the DNC are fine to rig their primaries.
https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
the term rigged is bullshit. What people have answered before is more accurate which I would describe as pushing other candidates to endorse and play ball and they would be rewarded. Your article uses the term rigged a lot but gives no explanation for the actions its considers to have rigged it.
We don't know if it was rigged because that was never actually addressed in court.
The DNC came in and said:
Their argument in court was that, as a private organization, they have a right to do that, and since they have that right, the lawsuit should be dismissed. Their argument was that as a private group, they can rig it if they want to and it's only their own rules that they are breaking so nobody can stop them. How can anyone take such an argument at face value? "We totally didn't rig it, but if we did, it was totally legal to do."
Have you heard that old saying?
This is the DNC pounding the law ("we're a private organization, that's not how this works") to be able to avoid fact-finding discovery.
People always focus on "pound the table" but I think "pound the law" should also be considered. Because there's a lot of bullshit ass law out there.
The DNC went well out of their way to avoid talking about the facts and to focus on the legal mechanisms protecting them from having to admit facts. They also flat out admitted that if they wanted to choose the candidate, they could, and nobody could stop them. It was literally their argument for why the lawsuit should be dismissed, that it was legal for them to choose the candidate without input from the party.
no because the accusation does not really fit what I would call rigged. which would be like changing votes or something. what they did was basically influence influencers.
Anything where an election is manipulated is "rigging" an election. You're just splitting hairs.
https://www.giantbomb.com/a/uploads/scale_super/3/33013/2638039-election%20rigging.jpg
Notice that the image I just showed is named "election rigging.jpg"?
The Definition for "rig":
rig: manage or conduct (something) fraudulently so as to produce a result or situation that is advantageous to a particular person.
Having literal media organizations promoting the idea that the Super Delegates were all in the bag for Clinton and emails that showed they actively tried to hamstring him all falls under "rigging."
Rigged is the correct term, in spite of you lack of curiosity.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/23/487179496/leaked-democratic-party-emails-show-members-tried-to-undercut-sanders
No it is not. Rigged implies making it impossible for the result. Like changing votes or otherwise just messing with the system like that. What was done was basically cajoling influential people. The voters could have still voted bernie in by giving him the majority of votes. Heck even trumps win is more rigged because of voter disenfranchisment and jerrry mandoring which is directly mucking with the process. Encouraging heavy hitters or influential folks to be negative about him or positive about clinton while being bs just does not fit with rigged. man its just like both sides kind of thing. its like yeah in the broadest terms, yes but folks take it way down to be like literally exactly the same and its like. no. by no means. in the details there is a massive gulf between them. details being things like no surprise billing or funding renewables and such. pretty big deal items. calling it rigged is disingenuous.
Since you are trying to rewrite history, I'm at least going to post this here so people understand the context of why we say, with out mixed words or a lack of emphasis, that the DNC rigged the primary against bernie.
This wasn’t incompetence—it was outright election interference. The DNC didn’t just favor Clinton; they actively sabotaged Bernie Sanders while pretending to be fair. The leaks confirmed everything.
"Cheat" is a wide-ranging term which is a little too cumbersome to use here, but there were absolutely some shenanigans at play.
The heavily abridged version (which is open to criticism for doing so) is that the democratic leadership had effectively selected Hilary Clinton before the party had even had the chance to select the candidate officially, and Bernie's campaign had it's legs done before it even had a chance to take off.
Would Bernie have won? Who knows, but he's consistently a decent and open candidate.
They consistently presented these super delegates as a forgone conclusion.
Brilliant, thank you for the clarification. Eight years feels like a long time ago.
It's still infuriating.
It's completely inappropriate here. If I tell you the rules to the game. And you agree to play. As Sanders did. And we both abide by the rules. Then no one cheated.
Shenanigans? Barely. Wasserman Schultz lost her job over it. Minimally impacting the Sanders campaign for a few days at most.
The Democratic primary rules were ironically not very democratic. But no one violated them or cheated anyone. Sanders knew that that going in. And he still almost won. Not only that. He didn't whine like a entitled child that he'd somehow been cheated. In a winner take all contest. He lost. But still won concessions. That's why I voted for the man. He made the future primaries more democratic and open to people like himself.
The DNC colluded to push Clinton/Biden, giving Bernie's challangers more publicity and promising other candidates positions if they drop out and endorse Clinton/Biden
Congratulations on your victory, Deep Coo.
Sanders was the wrong target. But Congress is certainly in the pocket of big pharma.
The solution is to reduce lobbying