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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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An average persons, such as all of us here, only ability to do anything about it was back in November, but y'all wanted to "teach the DNC a lesson at the polls" at the absolute worst fucking time
A party needs forward-looking and backward-looking voters in order to prosper. You can't win elections without the forward-lookers. But without the backward-lookers holding people accountable, you end up electing candidates who won't actually accomplish anything when they do manage to win.
The utilitarian folks arguing that "on the net, Harris would be better for reasons A, B, and C..." are forward-looking voters. Those staying home in protest of Palestine were backward-looking voters.
People simply have different cultures; liberals SHOULD realize and accept this. Not everyone thinks like you. Not everyone has the same voting culture you do. You are a forward-looking voter. But you shouldn't chauvinistically shame those of a different culture. Your way is not the only way.
Bruh, I'm not gonna forgive folk who "okayed" me getting my ass killed in the next four years just because they have "a different culture" on voting.
This isn't about "holding Dems accountable", it's about the literal fucking fascist proclaiming literal fucking fascist things running and the race being tight. This wasn't 2012. This wasn't 2008. Fuck, it wasn't even 2000 or 2004. It wasn't even fucking 2016, when people could plead ignorance as to Trump's character, if they were not deeply politically involved.
If they said "Anti-fascism isn't enough for me to throw my lot in to prevent fascism" in 2020 or 2024, they're a fascist enabler. End of story.
And how did that work out for y'all?
The exact same as if Harris won. Literally line for line. Our fight hasn't changed. Your fight has, and it will fail if you people don't give up wanting to commit genocide and overall being Nazis with liberal aesthetics.
Now you get genocide here and in Palestine. Congrats!
Everyone knows opening up a second front is ALWAYS a good idea LMAO
ROFL! You have no fight.
So it's your opinion that the protest vote against Palestinian genocide did make the difference between victory and defeat for the Trump regime?
Yes, Dems choosing to be more right wing than the trump 2016 campaign did have an effect. It did cause them to lose core support from minority groups that realized they weren't going to be supported anymore by the dem party.
Then you admit you refused to show solidarity with LGBT folk in the US, because the candidate for protecting LGBT folk in the US showed insufficient solidarity with Palestinians?
I'm a trans person myself and voted for Harris. Do not use my people as a rhetorical cudgel against those that voted for accountability. We've seen after the election that Democrats have little spine is protecting trans rights. Democrats already voted to support the first anti-LGBT law in 30 years. There is anti-trans legislation in the works that will likely have substantial Democratic support behind it.
You only use minorities as a tool to wield. When those minority groups stand up and object to being thrown under the bus in the name of political expediency, you just hold up another minority group as another rhetorical shield.
I didn't realize "accountability" was "putting a fascist in power to throw us disadvantaged groups in camps". Rather seems like the opposite of accountability to me, but what do I know? I'm just one of those filthy mixed-race mentally ill useless eaters who'll get thrown into the meat grinder. The REAL victims here are the people who sat on their asses while fascism came to America, and couldn't be arsed enough to do so much as take one day out of their busy fucking lives and cast a vote for someone they didn't like. Protecting minorities just wasn't important enough. Feeling pure was more important.
...Jill stein did show support for Palestinians, what the fuck are you on about? So did de la Cruz. Hell even Dr West did.
Those were the only candidates showing support for trans people in the 2024 election, so no idea how you got confused.
Edit: ooh you're one of the lgb not t guys, aren't you?
Okay? None of those candidates had any chance of defending LGBT folk in the US, and LGBT folk in the US overwhelmingly voted for Harris, above and beyond what support they gave the Dems in 2016 and 2020, because they saw the writing on the wall regarding Trump.
Get better material. Trans rights are human rights.
getting elected is probably one of the least effective ways to protect marginalized people. i think dr west and de la cruz are doing great work for queer people.
And neither of those idiots have a track record of ever having done shit to support their loaded promises.
You’re just believing shit because it sounds good. They’re both untested, unproven blowhards that don’t have the political clout, or legal knowledge to back up a god damned thing they “promised.”
The "protest vote" wasn't very organized. There are many communities of Arab and Muslim people in the States that weren't influenced by the small number of leftists advocating for votes against Harris. For many people, genocide is a deal breaker without outside influence of any sort.
Why are you able to excuse genocide overseas? Because at least it's not genocide at home? Why are you allowing the party that supposes to represent your beliefs to enable any genocide?
Oh cool, so they voted to prevent genocide in the US?
... no?
They didn't?
I guess genocide wasn't such a deal breaker.
Stop using the threat of future genocide to ignore current genocide
I never ignored the ongoing genocide in Palestine. But quite clearly, if one believes that "Genocide for Palestine and genocide for LGBT folk" is an acceptable alternative, genocide is not the 'deal-breaker'.
A vote for Harris was never a vote against genocide. There were many people who found it unconscionable to vote for anyone supporting any genocide. And you're placing the blame on those people instead of your party that is still supporting genocide.
And so they chose not to vote; and in not voting, supporting the ascension of the most genocidal candidate.
Inaction is not absolution. People who refused to vote against the Nazis because the opposition wasn't pure enough were complicit with the rise of the Nazis. It's the same fucking thing here. Not voting is a choice, with consequences, same as any other choice.
"I don't understand why you would blame the voters who chose as much genocide as possible for choosing genocide???"
Yeah, that tracks.
Will you answer this question?
Why are you allowing the party that supposes to represent your beliefs to enable any genocide?
Because our choices are limited, especially by the dominant opinions of the electorate. Support for Israel was still wildly popular despite the past minimum-20-but-arguably-up-to-75ish-years of genocide before Oct 7. That changed quicker than I expected, but was still far from complete even just within the voters of the Democratic Party, which is considerably less pro-Israel than the general population at the time of the election.
I could throw a purity fit and refuse to support the Dems for every atrocity they support. But that doesn't improve the world. That, in fact, makes the world worse, considering that the only viable opposition supports all Dem atrocities PLUS a great number more. I could pretend that inaction is some form of absolution, but that's utter bullshit. No one pretends that the people who saw "Both Sides" as bad were in the right in the parliamentary elections with the fucking Nazis in Weimar Germany. The SDP being anti-LGBT does not justify allowing the Nazis to win on the grounds of LGBT solidarity. Likewise, the Dems supporting Israel does not justify allowing the GOP, which is even more pro-Israel and intent on a few additional genocides of its own, to win on grounds of solidarity with Palestine.
It's the fucking trolley problem - we don't always have all the options we wish we had. With that in mind, you must choose what is, to you, the least repugnant option - and you must accept responsibility for that choice. Many, it would seem, want to make a choice and accept no responsibility for it. That's not how it works. Saying "I didn't vote" or "I voted for so-and-so who I knew never had a chance" is the same as taking your mail-in ballot, drawing smiley-faces all over it, and signing it with "I don't mind if genocide happens here or in Palestine :)". It is an expression of total disdain for consequences. We wield political power as voters. Voting is not some meaningless expression of personal fashion we use to define our style. We make choices, the same as representatives in a legislature make choices. And nothing we do in the political realm - abstaining or participating - is free from that.
I voted for Harris. I voted for, at best, insufficient action to stop the ongoing genocide in Palestine, and at worst, continued support at the current level for the ongoing genocide in Palestine. That's on my soul, and always will be. But everyone who voted for Trump, or a third party candidate, or didn't vote? They chose for the ongoing genocide in Palestine to get worse, and for people to be genocided here at home as well. They chose the option which saved no one, and killed as many people as possible. And considering that, in the end, Trump won, they have to live with that. That is on their soul, and always will be.
As long as people refuse to learn the lesson that inaction in the face of fascism is not innocence, and certainly not heroism, I intend on reminding them.
Voting isn't action. Voting for the party that made fascism sound reasonable to 80 million Americans is still "inaction in the face of fascism". The only moral choice in the trolley problem is to stop the trolley.
Oh, is it inaction? If I do nothing, I automatically vote?
I didn't realize that I was advocating voting for the GOP.
Okay. Did these people refusing to vote for "Less death" instead stop the trolley, acquiring "No death"?
Or is what you're really saying "Letting minorities be genocided is okay so long as you feel heroic about choosing a course of action you knew had no chance of succeeding"? Like seeing the Nazis march into Ukraine in WW2, and instead of choosing to support the lesser evil of nationalist partisans or the Sovs, you choose to dance naked under the moon every month in the hope that the beauty of your performance will bring peace to all the world? As long as you feel good about your dance, fuck those Jews and homosexuals who got sent to the camps, right?
Aren't you making that argument? That not voting was a vote for Trump?
You're advocating for the party that boosted trumps popularity and legitimized his views in formal debate, and so much more.
And I was thinking in this analogy that stopping the trolley equated to ending capitalism. That's what I'm really saying, not your bullshit. (I'm not saying that's the mindset of those who didn't vote, but that that's the only way to end genocide)
But really, you shouldn't be surprised that the party of maintaining our current level of genocide didn't inspire people to show up at the polls.
What kind of wierd world view is this? There are 210 million registered voters in the United States. Do you honestly believe that the beliefs of all of them are represented by the two relevant political parties in the United States?
Voting is pick your best option, not pick the one that is your personal Jesus.
Obviously they don't, that's exactly why the winner for the past however many elections is "did not vote"
But representing our beliefs is exactly what political parties are supposed to do, so I'm not going to blame people who don't see themselves represented
What are you even talking about, I and MANY others were right, everyday since the 20th has been a gold star example on how Trump is SO much worse. The article yesterday was literally Trump calling for a "total ethnic cleansing"
Not to mention all the additional people NOW under threat like the LGBTQ+ community.
Harris would have at worst kept the status quo, Trump is turning the dial to 11 on everything from Gaza to a recession to racism and transphobia. Good job though on your protest vote 👍
That's not worse. Genocide is genocide. Harris was already promising to roll back trans support and implement a worse version of Trump's 2016 border policy. And you voted for that.
Our fight hasn't changed. Yours has.
Hope you're ready.
GLADD seems to disagree with you on Harris’ trans support policy.
I’d suggest you read:
This
This
and
This
You are free to wrongly accuse democrats of having changed their fight, but at least they have one. Your fight doesn’t even exist as evident in your failed attempt to send a message with your little…. protest votes.
Why are you pushing misinformation?
Probably because accepting that one was wrong, taking responsibility, and trying to make amends to those that one harmed is really hard.
Let me fill you in on how things would have gone down had you and your fellow ~~Trump Supporters~~ bluEmAGa mouth breathers just shut up and advocated for Harris.
Trump would have lost, he would have been sentenced to jail, MAGA would have likely imploded in on itself and the Republicunts would have been too busy running around panicking to do much
Then we could have all focused on pressuring the DNC/Harris over the next 2 years about Gaza and then if necessary taught them that lesson at the polls at midterms
But no, now we're going to be too occupied with the SHOCK part of Trump's shock and awe plan to do much of anything for the Palestinians let alone ourselves.
Please. Just stop. You're hurting everyone.
I'm fairly certain that's exactly what these bLuEmAgA folks wanted
A fair portion appear to be adherents to accelerationism, the homeopathy of political philosophy, so, yes.
Since this account is getting banned since I dared to disagree with a .world mod with access to the admin bot, no, lib, you're hurting everyone.
You people need to die for progress to happen.
There it is, go back to your .ml tankie main account
Yep. It's totally the fault of those willing to show solidarity. Willingness to work together with people they might disagree with for something positive who are the problem. Do you even read the insanity that you post?
...
Full, mask off, core belief achievement on that one.