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Men | ContraPoints
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this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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Feminism
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Feminism, women's rights, bodily autonomy, and other issues of this nature. Trans and sex worker inclusive.
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It's been on our radar for a bit, but for reasons likely outlined in this video (haven't had a chance to watch it yet) there's often issues with online men's lib spaces needing additional moderation to help ensure they don't get invaded by bad actors who are sexist or incel. We'll likely launch a space like this eventually, but it just hasn't been the right time yet.
I can't imagine creating a men's rights community on the Internet today. It just seems like it would instantly be filled with... well... men's right's activists.
In many ways I think the problem is identical to "white rights activists." Men-ness (and white-ness) are created by contrast to other groups and their liberation and political progress, not because of an internal group identity that already exists. That is to say, a men's liberation group would be created in response to women creating women's liberation groups -- it can never escape its fate of being a reaction and an opposition. Unfortunately, "menninism" will always be about feminism, and that conversation usually turns pretty dark.
I agree with Natalie that it would be great if this weren't true or men could articulate a clear concept of masculinity that was not: toxic, patriarchal, or a reaction against feminism. I just don't know what it could possibly be that wouldn't escape that fate.
I think r/menslib shows it can be done, with very clear community rules and good moderation. There's definitely a need for it. There are plenty of men out there with their heads screwed on right and who need to be able to talk about issues that effect men without the conversation being derailed into sexist rants about women. I think maybe you're a little too pessimistic about men and their ability to define masculinity for themselves in a healthy and un sexist way.
I'm in my mid 40s and most men who can have these kind of thoughts have ended up being trans or queer.
Interesting, I'm late 40s, and I'd say my closest straight male friends definitely fall more within the men's lib way of thinking, or at least are valiantly trying, because they see through the bullshit and see how harmful it is. The vast majority of straight men of my generation though, no, they're not like that at all. It's desperately sad. They're miserable and angry but can't see the box they're in that's making them that way.
I'm in my 30s, and I've heard most of the straight men I know rant or at least comment about transphobia, sexism, and/or racism. I'm in a red state, so I know there are plenty of trash men, but the ones in my city are generally ok.
Yeah this is both my age and my experience.
That said everyone seems really into this idea so I’m prepared to be proven wrong. Who knows, maybe the new men’s liberation ideology that Nalatie foretold truly is out there.