this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name
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What difference does that make?
All the difference. We’re talking about the values of a people who knew they were dying. You called them idiots for wanting to be remembered by a person who actually cared about them. I think if you ask most people they’d rather be remembered by their loved ones than have their life recorded as a bunch of artifacts in a museum.
According to their values, their probe succeeded wildly in a way that nearly all other extinct cultures failed. The only other ones to come close were those aliens that hid their own humanoid DNA in the genetics of all the major civilizations. Even then, those aliens didn’t succeed at getting anyone to care about them the way Picard cared about the Resikans.
TLDR: no one cares about a bunch of crap people leave behind when they die. Go to an estate sale and see.
Edit: if you have a few hours to kill, watch this video. Then come back and continue the discussion.
I'm calling them idiots because they won't end up being remembered. Because Picard is not immortal.
They wanted one person to remember them. All the other extinct cultures had none!
Anyway, suppose they had made the probe infinitely reusable as long as you hooked it up to a power source. Then it would’ve turned into a Disney ride, totally cheapening the experience. Do you see what I’m getting at?
You're getting at the fact that the whole thing is a stupid plot device for a poignant episode and it makes no sense. "All the other extinct cultures had none" especially makes no sense considering the probe used itself on a guy who's hobby was learning about what extinct cultures left behind.
I'm sorry, nothing you have said makes the probe a better idea to memorialize a civilization than the carved plaque we put on the Pioneer probe. Because everyone can see the plaque and learn about us that way. And even if we had the same technology as the probe, we, and they, could do both.
I don't think you are getting the idea that a memorial space probe for an entire species that went extinct right after making the probe without a single piece of text on it is nonsense.
Did you watch the video I linked about nutmeg? We actually have real life examples of cultures going extinct in real time. The Bandanese people are witnessing the death of their own language as it happens. What upsets them the most is that their own children don’t speak their language. They could not care less about memorials to their language in some institute of language in the capital city.
That’s the whole genius of The Inner Light. They reached out across the vastness of space and time and taught Picard what it really meant to be a person living on their planet, in their culture. No stupid memorial plaque or other token could achieve that.
It’s not the piece of pottery that matters! It’s the people making it. Their lives and their experiences.
Nothing that you have said at any point justifies the lack of text and images. Languages die out because of a lack of text. Are you trying to say they didn’t invent writing but invented psychic space probes?
Languages die when people stop speaking them. They cannot be revived from written records. People still study Latin today but it will forever be a dead language because the chain of speakers was broken. The same goes for culture, for which language is a part. You cannot preserve a culture after all of its native practitioners are gone.
What the Resikans did was to preserve their own culture by giving Picard a life on their planet. Through his experiences he became the last living member of their culture. The profound grief he shows and his reluctance to talk about it is exactly what we would expect from the last survivor of a dying culture.
Unfortunately, Picard has no way to preserve their culture because he cannot recreate their entire way of life. No amount of writings or other artifacts can do that.
This is what we see all over the world with indigenous cultures that are dying off. They cannot be saved by scientists studying them and writing everything down and cataloguing all the art they’ve made. Just as you can’t save a species from extinction using dissection and taxidermy.
Uh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decipherment#Notable_decipherers
But sure, we have no idea what cuneiform or Egyptian hieroglyphs or Akkadian (and other cuneiform-script long-dead languages) or Linear B say. No idea at all. All those people who deciphered them after they were long dead, big liars.
Being able to decipher a language doesn’t mean the language is alive. It has to be spoken everyday by people who were taught by their parents, passed down as part of a whole culture.
Okay? This still doesn't justify a total lack of writing and pictures on their probe.
We put writing on probes not even intending them to be used in any sort of archaeological context. Just to help us put them together. Open up any piece of electronics- writing everywhere. Do they really not need any sort of instructions upon assembly?
I think it’s fair to say that they didn’t value books, at least not at the time they built the probe. Their planet was dying and they had accepted that fact for many years. Kamin’s wife Helene even admonishes him for spending too much time with his books instead of living life with their family.
It’s completely and utterly realistic from an emotional perspective. It’s everything you’d expect from a people who knew they were dying. Their way of life, their traditions, their music, their celebrations: those are what mattered to them and they couldn’t be preserved authentically in books or pictures. That’s why they created the probe.
Why is it fair to say that? You have no idea how they felt about books just because one person didn’t like one other person spending too much time with their books. That’s a criticism real live humans have given to each other.
To accept all of your explanations, I have to accept a whole lot of things that are pure assumptions on your part and not actually demonstrated in the episode.
I think we all know that you can come up with extremely convoluted explanations for why stupid things in sci-fi aren’t actually stupid. They all involve adding all sorts of details. If those details were relevant, you shouldn’t have to make them up.
She wasn’t just one person. She was a representative of her entire species. They make it clear at the end when everyone reverts to their youthful appearance. The life Picard lived as Kamin was in some sense a staging for Picard’s benefit, not a real life. Kamin may have been a real person who was married to Helene but Picard wouldn’t have mirrored exactly what he did with his life.
At any rate, I think you’re missing the point of Star Trek. The show has never been “hard sci fi”. It’s always been a show that uses a science fiction setting to tell human stories. Trying to criticize it from a scientific perspective is just silly. There’s a bit of science in the show but any time science gets in the way of the story they wave it away with some technobabble.
Again, you're making up things that aren't in the show and assuming things that aren't said.
I think you're missing the point that this was a "Wait-a-minute Wednesday" thread in a meme community and maybe you need to take this about a billion times less seriously than you're taking it.
I’d forgotten that long ago. I was just enjoying this back and forth with you!