216
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
216 points (100.0% liked)
TechTakes
1489 readers
32 users here now
Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.
This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.
For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
It's takes like this that just discredit the rest of the text.
You can dislike LLM AI for its environmental impact or questionable interpretation of fair use when it comes to intellectual property. But pretending it's actually useless just makes someone seem like they aren't dissimilar to a Drama YouTuber jumping in on whatever the latest on-trend thing to hate is.
"Almost nothing" is not the same as "actually useless". The former is saying the applications are limited, which is true.
LLMs are fine for fictional interactions, as in things that appear to be real but aren't. They suck at anything that involves being reliably factual, which is most things including all the stupid places LLMs and other AI are being jammed in to despite being consistely wrong, which tech bros love to call hallucinations.
They have LIMITED applications, but are being implemented as useful for everything.
To be honest, as someone who's very interested in computer generated text and poetry and the like, I find generic LLMs far less interesting than more traditional markov chains because they're too good at reproducing clichés at the exclusion of anything surprising or whimsical. So I don't think they're very good for the unfactual either. Probably a homegrown neural network would have better results.
I'm in the same boat. Markov chains are a lot of fun, but LLMs are way too formulaic. It's one of those things where AI bros will go, "Look, it's so good at poetry!!" but they have no taste and can't even tell that it sucks; LLMs just generate ABAB poems and getting anything else is like pulling teeth. It's a little more garbled and broken, but the output from a MCG is a lot more interesting in my experience. Interesting content that's a little rough around the edges always wins over smooth, featureless AI slop in my book.
slight tangent: I was interested in seeing how they'd work for open-ended text adventures a few years ago (back around GPT2 and when AI Dungeon was launched), but the mystique did not last very long. Their output is awfully formulaic, and that has not changed at all in the years since. (of course, the tech optimist-goodthink way of thinking about this is "small LLMs are really good at creative writing for their size!")
I don't think most people can even tell the difference between a lot of these models. There was a snake oil LLM (more snake oil than usual) called Reflection 70b, and people could not tell it was a placebo. They thought it was higher quality and invented reasons why that had to be true.
Orange site example:
Reddit:
For story telling or creative writing, I would rather have the more interesting broken english output of a Markov chain generator, or maybe a tarot deck or D100 table. Markov chains are also genuinely great for random name generators. I've actually laughed at Markov chains before with friends when we throw a group chat into one and see what comes out. I can't imagine ever getting something like that from an LLM.
GPT-2 was peak LLM because it was bad enough to be interesting, it was all downhill from there
Absolutely, every single one of these tools has got less interesting as they refine it so it can only output the platonic ideal of kitsch.
Agreed, our chat server ran a Markov chain bot for fun.
In comparison to ChatGPT on a 2nd server I frequent it had much funnier and random responses.
ChatGPT tends to just agree with whatever it chose to respond to.
As for real world use. ChatGPT 90% of the time produces the wrong answer. I've enjoyed Circuit AI however. While it also produces incorrect responses, it shares its sources so I can more easily get the right answer.
All I really want from a chatbot is a gremlin that finds the hard things to Google on my behalf.
Let's be real here: when people hear the word AI or LLM they don't think of any of the applications of ML that you might slap the label "potentially useful" on (notwithstanding the fact that many of them also are in a all-that-glitters-is-not-gold--kinda situation). The first thing that comes to mind for almost everyone is shitty autoplag like ChatGPT which is also what the author explicitly mentions.
I'm saying ChatGPT is not useless.
I'm a senior software engineer and I make use of it several times a week either directly or via things built on top of it. Yes you can't trust it will be perfect, but I can't trust a junior engineer to be perfect either—code review is something I've done long before AI and will continue to do long into the future.
I empirically work quicker with it than without and the engineers I know who are still avoiding it work noticeably slower. If it was useless this would not be the case.
Oh my god, an actual senior softeare engineer????? Amidst all of us mortals??
ah, a señor software engineer. excusé-moi monsoir, let me back up and try once more to respect your opinion
uh, wait:
whoops no, sorry, can't do it.
jesus fuck I hope the poor bastards that are under you find some other place real soon, you sound like a godawful leader
yep yep! as we all know, velocity is all that matters! crank that handle, produce those features! the factory must flow!!
fucking christ almighty. step away from the keyboard. go become a logger instead. your opinions (and/or the shit you're saying) is a big part of everything that's wrong with industry.
and you fucking know what? it's not even just me being a snide motherfucker, this rant is literally fucking supported by data:
and that's a report sponsored and managed right from the fucking lying cloud company, no less. a report they sponsor, run, manage, and publish is openly admitting this shit. that is how much this shit doesn't fucking work the way you sell it to be doing.
but no, we should trust your driveby bullshit. motherfucker.
Thank you for saving me the breath to shit on that person's attitude :)
yw
these arseslugs are so fucking tedious, and for almost 2 decades they've been dragging everything and everyone around them down to their level instead of finding some spine and getting better
word. When I hear someone say "I'm a SW developer and LLM xy helps me in my work" I always have to stop myself from being socially unacceptably open about my thoughts on their skillset.
and that’s the pernicious bit: it’s not just their skillset, it also goes right to their fucking respect for their team. “I don’t care about just barfing some shit into the codebase, and I don’t think my team will mind either!”
utter goddamn clownery
Please, señor software engineer was my father. Call me Bob.
Nice, me too, and whenever some tech-brained C-suite bozo tries to mansplain to me why LLMs will make me more efficient, I smile, nod politely, and move on, because at this point I don't think I can make the case that pasting AI slop into prod is objectively a worse idea than pasting Stack Overflow answers into prod.
At the end of the day, if I want to insert a snippet (which I don't have to double-check, mind you), auto-format my code, or organize my imports, which are all things I might use ChatGPT for if I didn't mind all the other baggage that comes along with it, Emacs (or Vim, if you swing that way) does this just fine and has done so for over 20 years.
If LOC/min or a similar metric is used to measure efficiency at your company, I am genuinely sorry.
Good. Thanks for telling us your opinion's worthless.
~~Senior software engineer~~ programmer here. I have had to tell coworkers "don't trust anything chat-gpt tells you about text encoding" after it made something up about text encoding.
It's useful insofar as you can accommodate its fundamental flaw of randomly making stuff the fuck up, say by having a qualified expert constantly combing its output instead of doing original work, and don't mind putting your name on low quality derivative slop in the first place.
actually you know what? with all the motte and baileying, you can take a month off. bye!