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submitted 3 days ago by GiddyGap@lemm.ee to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 39 points 3 days ago

Once you factor in things it mentions like insurance, taxes, upkeep along with others like a down payment then it's very easy to see where the 14% numbers comes from. Frankly, I'm surprised it's only 14%. There's a lot of additional and hidden costs with home ownership.

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 45 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The difference is those "costs" are going towards buying equity that you then get to keep. Maintaining a house is expensive but it is an asset that maintains value. This article really doesn't seem to understand that which shows a very basic misunderstanding of the wealth math that goes into home ownership.

Renting may be cheaper month to month but you're literally pouring that money down a black hole never to be seen in your hands again.

Granted, building equity doesn't matter when you're already have no cash paycheck-to-paycheck for either.

No, not all of them. Insurance, property tax, and maintenance do not go to equity.

[-] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 10 points 3 days ago

Not to mention mortgage interest.

[-] cybervseas@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Property taxes are still partly tax deductible. Also even at my low mortgage rate of 3%, I get about $450/mo. back via the mortgage interest tax deduction, worth about $300/mo. over the standard deduction IIRC. I am not sure if they factor these things into the 14% number.

[-] SolacefromSilence@fedia.io 8 points 3 days ago

It's not common for people to itemize any longer after Trump's tax updates a few years ago

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

It’s not common for people to itemize any longer after Trump’s tax updates a few years ago

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) of 2017 Trump passed put in place permanent tax cuts for corporations and temporary tax cuts for individuals. The individuals tax cuts expire next year in 2025 so in 2026 the current standard deduction for single filers of $14,600 drops to $8,300. For joint filers is currently $29,000 and dropping to $16,600. source

Unless these tax cuts for individuals are renewed, we might see many more folks itemizing again because the standard deduction is too small again.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

The part of that which REALLY hurt me was the cap on how much you could deduct. I itemized even with the increase in higher standard deduction, so capping my deduction hurt me a lot.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

SALT deduction elimination was devastating for some folks.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Those tax updates screwed me. Yes, it temporarily raised the tax deduction, but it also capped the tax deductions if you were above the standard. His changes cost me a couple grand a year.

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago

This is more of a case where the article doesn't take the time to explain the nuance. Everyone knows home ownership increases equity. Which is why it costs more.

[-] fishpen0@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

insurance

I was shocked as a homeowner to find that home insurance is not that much more expensive than renters insurance, especially for a condo where the HOA is sharing a large amount of the cost

taxes

I mean, especially if you’re already a homeowner and your assessment is years old, this amounts to less than $1k/yr.

Using the above poster’s example both of those costs annualize out to still be cheaper than rent

It’s actually horrifying how fast rent has gone up. Our mortgage in Boston went from being $1000mo more than average rent to $500mo under average rent in only two years. Even with the tax hike we just passed in my town, my total cost of ownership is far below renting even accounting for the savings we set aside for upkeep and emergencies

Plus this whole time we’ve been improving the property. We now have solar on a 0% apr loan and don’t have electricity bills anymore and the mo billing for the panels is less than our old electric bills. We also used a state program to replace all the insulation and windows at cost with another 0 apr loan. So our gas bill is now only ~$80-100 compared to the $400-500 gas bill in the shithole apartments around here with 200 year old paper insulation. And if we want we can use another state program to replace our furnace with a heat pump and lower that further.

So our relative cost went down even more as utilities keep going up and renters have zero control over their homes energy usage

[-] AEsheron@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

These are very region dependant. My state has no income or sales tax, but the property taxes are higher, my 1 acre with a mobile home is basically 3k. It's almost certainly cheaper than renting, but you can't just make sweeping statements like that.

[-] fishpen0@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

At the same time. If sales tax has always been that high then it would be silly to not realize that cost is baked into the local rents in the same region

Certainly in my town where taxes were just hiked, every landlord is going to hike rent accordingly in September (it’s a Boston thing that 90% of leases always end in September)

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

The property tax on my house is $7000/year... and that is with a fixed assessment from 12 years ago. If I were to buy my house today, my tax would be $21000/year.

[-] fishpen0@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

That’s why I caveated with if you are already a homeowner for a while. It’s totally different to be buying a house now and comparing it to rent now. The important bit is the cost is fixed and rent is not. In our case it only took two years for rent to surpass us.

But yeah. Especially if you live in a state with no income taxes, the property tax story is very region dependent. If property taxes are that extreme though, it’s almost certainly also being built into peoples rent which means it’s not contributing heavily to the difference in cost from renting and owning

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago

Sounds like you have the fortune of living where these things are cheaper. In Ontario, home insurance is much higher and property tax being less than 1K a year is completely unheard of.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Once you factor in things it mentions like insurance, taxes, upkeep along with others like a down payment then it’s very easy to see where the 14% numbers comes from.

So you're agreeing with me that they're only comparing the first month of ownership of the house with the last month of renting? There's no factoring in the long term rise in rents to their math?

There’s a lot of additional and hidden costs with home ownership.

There certainly are, but its very situational. A 100 year old home will have very different upkeep costs than a 10 year old home. A home in a hurricane zone will have different upkeep than one that isn't.

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago

I mean neither of us know how they arrived at the 14% number. So your comparison is not really relevant and I would say it's not a good one even. But in a generic/average month-to-month overview, home ownership is almost always more expensive.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

I had a long reply typed out exploring the various aspects and raising questions to the methodology and applicability of the advice in the article to different groups of people in different geographies and stage of life. However the tone of replies seems to just want to accept the article as is. Its a yahoo finance article, so the depth is pretty shallow and only speaks in broad generalizations. Your reply is doubling down on exactly that. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it looks like the there isn't a desire in this thread to explore it any further.

So we'll just accept the article answer which you summarize well: "generic/average month-to-month overview, home ownership is almost always more expensive."

Conventional wisdom says keep renting folks and don't question it.

Did you not read the comment? Property tax, insurance, and upkeep are all perpetual costs. The down-payment, closing fees, and potential mortgage insurance are the only up-front costs.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Did you not read the comment? Property tax, insurance, and upkeep are all perpetual costs. The down-payment, closing fees, and potential mortgage insurance are the only up-front costs.

I read the comment. It doesn't address the question. "Over what period of time?"

Are they judging on owing a house for 30 years vs renting for 30 years or are they judging owning house for 1 year vs renting for 1 year?

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 points 3 days ago

Less relevant in a condo

this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
346 points (100.0% liked)

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