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Anon preps for a hurricane
(sh.itjust.works)
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this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
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Everyone always laughs at hitting someone in the head with a punch/can of beans/baseball bat/2x4/karate chop/whatever and knock them out. The joke being that the person will wake in ten minutes or an hour like in the movies and they'll go about living again.
In real life if you knock someone out cold with some kind of hit to their head ... you've more than likely killed them or put them in a place where they will die within the next hour or two.
That is... Incorrect, there is about a 30% death rate within one year of brain trauma but there is absolutely no data showing that someone is going to die within an hour of being knocked unconscious more often than not, especially if they are young
I'm not saying that you're wrong. You sound like you might know what you're talking about. I just like publications and medical evidence. I trust that you won't take it the wrong way.
Source?
Do you have a metastudy or something for that?
That last sentence, do you have a source for the difference in outcome depending on the patient's age?
Bricolo, A., Turazzi, S., & Feriotti, G. (1980). Prolonged posttraumatic unconsciousness: therapeutic assets and liabilities.. Journal of neurosurgery, 52 5, 625-34 . https://doi.org/10.3171/JNS.1980.52.5.0625.
And it's not on me to find the burden of truth for you. That's a logical fallacy and a bad arguing tactic
Is it not the one who claims something that has the burden of proof? I'm confused.
I’d say it’s more a burden for the person making the claim that goes against reality. Imminent death is not in the least a common progression of getting knocked out.
Yes. The OP of this thread needs to back up their claim that getting knocked out will kill you
FFS I wasn't trying to argue with you. Since you quoted some very specific numbers, I thought that you had done some recent research on the matter, and thus had an up to date knowledge of the current studies. In that case copy pasting said references from endnote should have taken 30 seconds and provided the community with a lot of valuable info.
I wasn't trying to get you to search for studies that would back up your claims, I thought you had them already.
Why does asking for citations equal arguing? Where did I even hint that I thought you were wrong? I very much tried to make my intentions clear, yet everyone still think that I'm some smuck smart-ass trying to win an argument ... an argument I wasn't even part of to begin with.
Crow made a claim. And then Yoko made a claim refuting their claim. The burden of proof is on both of them. Not the third party guy Danish asking for sources.
This thread is like getting hit in the head with a can of beans.
The Lemmy experience.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/15038-concussion This work (not for the 30% thing but just in general)?
A weird amount of people were triggered by you asking for evidence. A reflection on our times.
Maybe, but they could’ve also posted the same request for citations on the first poster but did not.
I think that really does reflect how someone can just say whatever and when challenged we are biased to only assume the second opinion as doubtful.
OP's claims of "oh mer gerhd you dead soon" were so broad and so wild that they didn't seem rooted in research. Asking for citations would be like asking your antivax aunt for her DIY "research". But at least the claims should motivate people to seek healthcare, if they get knocked unconscious. Something that will save lives. So I left it at that.
I asked for citations where I did, because it seemed like that commenter worked in the medical field, and actually could have the studies handy.
If you read my request as casting doubt, then I invite you to read the first paragraph again. I specifically pointed out I just like scientific research, data, and evidence. I actually tried to avoid being seen as arguing against the claims.
I can't help that you (and a lot of other people, apparently) see asking for citations, as casting doubt. Expressing doubt wasn't my intention, I was genuinely curious about the sources.
And if being curious about science is wrong, then I'm going crawl up under a warm blanket, with a cup of chai and a nice peer reviewed metastudy, while staying wrong.
Edits: grammar hard
I honestly think that it’s totally fine to ask for citations and I also would have loved to see them. Furthermore I also really think that it was much more reasonable to ask the second person for the citation than the first one so I am in total agreement with you.
And I do really want to clarify that I was honestly just commenting on the doomy comment of: „a reflection of our times“ Because this really just felt more like an anchor effect hypothesis moment to me of being biased by the first data input however outrageous it may seem.
Even if you had casted doubt (which I again don’t think you did) that would’ve been fine and healthy I would argue. I love it when people ask for citations and then even read through them and discuss the limitations of it, I think that’s fucking awesomesauce and I’m glad people like you can read it and share their insights on it.
Long story short I was sharing another - to me more plausible - explanation of the vote distribution. Hope you have a lovely day and this kerfuffle did not discourage you from exploring and sharing the interest details of the world.
(god I should really learn to write more concise)
Thanks for clarifying. And if writing concise was an Olympic discipline, you'd be in the elite compared to me :)
at least show the studies you're referencing instead of just saying you have them and asking for others to show theirs
It’s because he doesn’t have them.
Are you talking to me? I mean you replied to my comment, but saying that I'm referencing studies doesn't make any sense. Well at least not to me, because I don't believe that I claimed to have any studies for anything.
If you meant to reply to me, please go read my first paragraph, and the maybe try it a second time. I actively tried to avoid getting labeled as dismissing the claims.
so by that you mean you just like them but dont use or reference them? and yet you still ask others to show theirs? what kind of logic is this?!?!?
I justified asking for studies. At no point did I claim to have spent hours searching pubmed. How hard is that to comprehend?
Have you ever tried searching pubmed and vetting studies by reading abstracts? It's not like using google and clicking on the first result.
First off, searching for studies backing up some claims will always introduce confirmation bias. Secondly finding relevant studies, vetting the search results, by reading the abstracts, validating the scope of the study, deciphering the methods used, etc, will easily take the same number of hours as OP would spend in minutes to copy paste from their bibliography system.
if you don't expect yourself to give any sources to your claims, why the hell are you expecting others to give sources to their claims?
I think you are confusing people. DanishGuy is not the OP. They are a third person asking for the person debating the OP to back up their claims. It confused me too.
Which claims have I made?
oh sorry i thought you were someone else, but still, you seem to be siding with someone who didn't show any proof of their points.
Being knocked out is certainly not good, but it's not automatic death like you're suggesting.
Depends where you hit and how hard. It's the emergency shutdown because of concussion. If the concussion was too hard, it can swell and then it gets dangerous. Not to mention fragile places like temple or neck.
Wdit: concussion, not convulsion
I don't think the word convulsion means what you think it means. Do you mean concussion? Concussion is only one type of head injury, though, with different grades to it.
False LMFAO.
Source: semi pro snowboarder who’s been knocked out many times
Being knocked out is literally one step before dead and can have serious aftereffects like parts of your swollen brain dying because there's too less space for a swollen brain in your skull.
I too was once knocked out as a child and barfed 3 days afterwards with memory loss.
Take care of yourself.
It is not one step before death. Holy shit are you being dramatic.
I had a TBI as a result of a double impact - minor concussion where I didn’t pass out skateboarding (and didn’t know it), then the next day friendly fire collision with a friend in the park snowboarding. I was knocked out for five minutes, had an out of body experience, came to very aggressively with a permanent change of personality that persists to this day half a lifetime later. That being said I was nowhere near death, had a I been knocked out into a coma things would be different.
TBIs are nothing to mess with, they change you for life. ADHD like symptoms, mental health struggles, aggression and explosive anger, memory loss, gaslighting from medical professionals about the severity of the injury (the 2000s were rough…) and opening yourself up to abuse by future significant others because you don’t trust your own memory. Never mind the struggle to maintain employment or how TBIs are invisible disabilities that are tough to get workplace accommodations for.
TBIs are serious, even when they are ‘mild’ (a complete misnomer). But being knocked out ≠ being knocked into a coma which is one step from death. Nor does it mean you’re having a brain bleed. Your brain is inflamed and it’s key not to impact it again for a ~month while the inflammation recedes. Because I had a double impact I ended up permanently damaged. I worry about CTE and dementia later in life as I’ve had other hits to the head since, including getting knocked out momentarily while riding for work.
FYI in case anyone asks - yes I wear a helmet and was wearing one the day of my TBI. Helmets don’t prevent concussions at all, they prevent skull fractures, punctures and lacerations. The helmet saved my life because it prevented skull fracture but more importantly laceration, as my friend collided into my head with the edge of her board first.
I agree it's not one step before death, but as you elaborated, what it effectively is, is brain damage, which is always something that needs to be taken seriously. I.e. if someone is knocked-out, it's not something that can be ignored as in "ha ha, they'll be ok in a couple of minutes"
Most of the time minor concussions that involving being knocked out for a couple minutes or less usually don’t result in lasting brain damage although there is a risk. It’s the double impact - getting hit while the brain is inflamed from the first impact - that leads to the serious problems involving brain damage that I’ve experienced.
A kid getting knocked out for a few moments in a soccer game and then taken out of sports for a couple weeks is gonna see their grades drop in school for a month or so and have recurring headaches and mild memory and focus issues but they won’t be lasting and within a month the effects go away and are not life long. Now if they don’t get pulled out of the game and keep playing and sustain another hard hit they’re in trouble.
That’s what you’re seeing with the pro footballers and boxers and CTE when they hit their late 30s and 40s.
Yes, which is why any such injury must be taken seriously (and most medics do so), which is my point.
My point is the severity of head injuries ranges from get an ice pack, Tylenol and some rest to get a helicopter this person isn’t gonna make it much longer. And then everything in between. The initial comment of one step from death! is dramatic as hell which is why I made the comments I made from experience.
Most concussions are minor with no lasting effects.
And my point is that you don't know how dangerous a concussion is going to be without monitoring which is why every concussion needs to be taken seriously!
Yeah, but the point of the thread is it’s not an automatic death sentence.
While true, Hollywood has done almost irreparable damage to this effect, so maybe some extra scare won't be too bad.
You're actually dead and died in that second knock out .... this is purgatory and you'll be commenting like this for a few thousand years.
I'm no scientist, doctor or medical professional ... I just know that its dangerous to try to knock someone's noggin really hard to try to make them pass out. Dangerous to the point that there is a good chance that it can kill someone.
Fuck! Nobody told me!!!!
No you probably haven't been knocked out multiple times for seconds. Or you have a very rare brain condition that triggers that on light taps.
28 years of snowboarding and skateboarding will do that.
I ride over 100 days a year for the last decade and used to be paid to do so. It’s an occupational hazard…
I got briefly knocked out skateboarding a couple times and snowboarding a couple more. Ever catch your heels? If you know you know. My TBI was skateboarding the first day and got a concussion without losing consciousness and didn’t know it, the second day was snowboarding and a friend landed on my head in the park. I was out for 5 minutes. Which is a relatively long time in terms of ‘mild’ head injuries.
One of my brief knock outs was when I got hit while working… almost 20 years after the TBI. The tbi makes losing consciousness happen quicker but a lot of my brief knock outs were pre TBI.
~~Skill~~ Skull issue
And even if you haven't killed them outright, they can have permanent disabilities.
If you, or someone you know, gets knocked out, or experiences other symptoms of a central nervous system trauma after a hit to the head, please seek medical care immediately. It's not one those "take two aspirin and let's see how it goes in the morning" kinda things.
I'm just one person, but during my life I've seen this multiple times. I will refrain from boring you, and doxxing myself, by telling my anecdotes. Suffice it to say that I have known people who would have been dead if they hadn't gone to work with a "bad hangover", or ended up with narcolepsy or chronic encephalopathy. And that was separate people BTW.
Relax, it's just another made up story.
So I once slipped on a puddle while jogging (in the wrong place) and hit the back of my head on sedimentary tiles.
Since I had stiffened my neck, trying to stretch it backward (yes I was doing that while jogging on wet tiles), my head hit the ground hard.
After about 2 minutes, I fainted for ~10 seconds. Was fine later.
That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. You can always find that one person who fulfills the criteria but who's outcome doesn't match.
Of course you can be fine afterwards. But there's a considerable risk that you're not, and experiencing symptoms of a traumatic head injury does warrant a visit to the hospital.
Of course I visited the hospital for a CT scan.
Of course I'm not telling you to hit your head for fun.
This is just a fun story, not evidence for anything.
People have survived failed parachutes. Doesn't mean we can all be Alex Mercer.
To market, to market went my Uncle Jim
When somebody threw a tomato at him.
Tomatoes are soft and they won't bruise the skin,
But this one killed Jim, it was wrapped in a tin.