826
But I love death
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
826 points (100.0% liked)
Memes
47128 readers
1008 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
I eat meat AND vegetables
Nah.
Steak is delicious, and at the end of the day it's only a cow.
I've raised quite a few farm animals. They don't have an urge to live. My goodness do they take every chance to get themselves killed...
Is it still anecdotal if literally any farmer will tell you the same? Because they will.
A surprisingly large amount of effort goes into trying to keep the livestock from hurting themselves or getting themselves killed. That's inevitable when essentially turn off natural selection, they end up losing any sense of self preservation. And why not, they do have multiple humans who's entire career centers on keeping them alive until they're ready for slaughter.
wow i fucking wonder why dude
They live more comfortably than you do. In an environment literally designed to maximize their ability to grow.
Y'all continually fail to understand that farmers have a direct financial incentive to keep these animals happy and healthy. Stressed animals don't grow nearly as well as happy animals, and small animals don't make money.
Taking proper care of the animals is more profitable in the long run, even if you assume that all farmers are heartless monsters who enjoy watching needless suffering (we aren't by the way).
They are hearty for sure and that can be seen as an urge or will to live. Animals are dumb and have a shocking lack of self preservation. Are you talking about conscious 'I want to live, I better not do that' or 'I will find a way to live in my circumstances'?
Plenty of foods are delicious.
So ethics aren't a concern for you. How about the adverse health effects, or environmental impacts of the meat industry? Any considerations there, or is all about how delicious steak is to you?
You gotta let people be people. Shaming someone for their dietary choices is not cool. Not everyone shares the same beliefs and that is fine.
I personally believe that people should not eat meat unless they have what it takes to kill it themselves so they understand what goes into it. Too many people eat meat all the time without understanding that something has to die for it to get there. I also disagree with mass agribusiness indoor livestock operations.
When someones dietary choice causes huge amounts of needless suffering and death to the victim (the innocent animal that was exploited and killed) then that's not "fine". That's a serious injustice that should be pointed out (at the very least)
Wait, fish can eat other fish, but I can't? How's that fair?
i know this may be a shock but fish haven’t reached the industrialization part of civilization yet. they do not have the capabilities to grow crops and harvest them and make dishes
I mean, meat is still murder, right?
So you're using the "Lions rape and murder, therefore it's okay to do the same." argument?
Weak.
animals in the wild do a lot of unethical shit
Monsters, all of them. Someone should eat them, just to keep the others safe.
Think about the argument you're making here: "Wild animals do X, therefore humans should be allowed to do X". I hope you understand how horrible this argument is. Here's a fun little list of things animals do:
I’ll be thinking of you while I eat my steak today
I won't think about you at all.
Watch dominion while you eat
That is your belief. I respect it. My mom is a vegetarian and I respect her beliefs, she would cook meat for us as she respected ours.
To me, the world has been eating itself since the beginning of life. Wild animals die horrible slow deaths from sickness to starvation over the course of days/weeks to being eaten alive or left to die, and that is the natural way of things. If you want to live you have to die. You don't have to agree with me, but you should accept that different people see things differently than you.
I don't expect a person at the bottom of the economic scale to feed their family with expensive alternatives that they don't understand, and you should't shame them for doing the best they can with what they have or what they know. If someone has the means to eat along with their beliefs, then more power to them. But shaming others is not the way.
Lead by example. Offer affordable alternatives, give positive publicity, not negative publicity, to let people see how your way can be good. Allow people to see your way. Don't force them or they'll just dig in deeper on their own beliefs.
If you believe that then you should work to change people's minds, like actually research how to do that. The way you currently approach it will only make people disagree with you out of spite. Good luck to you.
Some people really think being a good example of the product of their beliefs and being obnoxiously obtuse and argumentative about their beliefs are equally effective at persuading others to think like them.
I can tell you no person ever in the history of humanity was convinced by the latter.
You’re doing the thing that creates the opposite world you wanna live in again.
That’s the most straw man argument I’ve seen in a while.
Maybe take a step back and think about how using nazi analogies when discussing meat eaters is counterproductive to your beliefs and frigging offensive to large swaths of the global population who were affected by nazis. Those two things are not comparable and you need to do some self education if you think that’s okay or persuasive.
Maybe take another step back and recognize that many people who were tortured by the nazis see the similarities to animal agriculture and are actively against it
Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_analogy_in_animal_rights
"Perhaps the earliest use of the analogy comes from Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz, a German concentration camp survivor and journalist, who wrote in 1940 in his "Dachau Diaries" from inside the Dachau Concentration Camp that "I have suffered so much myself that I can feel other creatures' suffering by virtue of my own".[4][5] He further wrote, "I believe as long as man tortures and kills animals, he will torture and kill humans as well—and wars will be waged—for killing must be practiced and learned on a small scale".[4]"
Except for the civil rights movement. Or Indian independence under Ghandi.
Who is being oppressed? Are you not free to perdue your own dietary choices?
Some beliefs lead to immoral outcomes. I'm absolutely certain you can think of quite a few beliefs like that, right? Just picture a hill billy from Alabama, are all his beliefs fine?
In the end, morals is applied ethics, and politics is applied morals. We absolutely should legislate and not tolerate bad beliefs. The vague idea that "everyone has their own belief/opinion and we have to respect it" is a thought terminating cliche that makes the world a worse place. My dad wants me to respect his antivax beliefs, my grandfather wants me to respect his climate change denialism beliefs. Should I?
If you dont want to contribute to the comodification of sentient beings you'd also have to quit your job unless it somehow has literally zero impact on your physical and mental well being. Anyone got a job like that?
Imagine being a pro-capitalism vegan lmao
Wait do you think farming doesn’t hurt animals? I’m all for not eating meat, but pretending you’re not harming millions of insects, birds, and various mammals every time you eat a salad, you’re confused about how food production works.
The moral thing people can do is stop making so many people. And hopefully we find ways to produce food in a better way one day. But farming on the scale that feeds billions of people is absolutely fucked.
Oh boy I love leftists naivety